744 Forum

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers wrote

Maybe electronics and automation are used to increase the mental workload of a human, which then is believed to increase productivity? And then the question comes: what is gained by increasing a pilot's productivity? The plane does not move any faster.

Not faster, but -- for example -- it moves in a more complex traffic system. This is aided by electronics (your job, Jeroen :-)). Electronics require productive human users (if it consists of more than just an on/off switch).


|-|

I have the faint idea that electronics on flight decks were not introduced to allow planes to move in a more complex traffic system. I fear it did not even play a role. I fear it was just to save costs, and on the ground moves were taken to save costs as well, and nobody really designed a new system to actually improve, they just squeezed more planes into the same airspace and increased workload all over the place.

Some organisations now try to actually make changes based on technology, and they meet stiff resistance...

Not necessarily unbiased view: http://www.roger-wilco.net/functional-airspace-blocks-fab-%E2%80%93-the-best-thing-since-sliced-bread/


Jeroen

I think it was introduced to save costs and to increase the safety.

...

20 years ago, journalists just needed a pencil or a typewriter. Today they need a computer, because it makes the work easier. I don't know ... it could be that the workload to handle a computer is sometimes just as high as the workload with pencil and paper.

I believe airline pilots have it fairly easy come fly a single pilot 35000 feet conquest. You are the dispatch planner, refueler, daily inspector, ramp personnel, rocket ship controller, throw in bad weather, short sectors and MEL's! That is demanding.

Airline pilot have airbridge gates, tugs, flight attendants, dispatch, refuelers, catering, toilet dumpers, baggage handlers, load controllers maintenance engineers on the ground information via satellite back to base ACARS. In controlled airspace (not having to traffic seperate), icing is not really to much of a problem CB/TS can be seen visually, VNAV, LNAV, redundant systems, nice big glass displays, good light at night, good aerodromes, PAPI, TVASIS, ILS, sealed rwys and Autoland. I could think for hours why flying a jet is the most easy flying job. This is one of the reasons why I am not pushing my career into jets at the moment. All professional pilots need to experience a challenge that is what makes people that want to be pilot different to others.

I couldn't think of anything easier then operating a 747-400 and I couldn't think of a harder simulator to build thanks to PSX it should make it as real as possible and to have a real simulator you have to put in the work, but in the end it will give you big gratification. The aircraft is complex to make it easy for the pilot to operate.

Jeroen,
these are really good questions and comments you raise. I believe management now is more operations research and probability based, using technology. Less parts are manufactured to storage, hence Toyota's reduced production due to damaged facilities, but increased productivity hence recent doubling of income.
In the airline business, computer based asset management enables aircraft to be better utilized so they fly more hours. The twin pilot crew is often augmented by additional staff to remain within workhour limitations on longer haul, a sign of improved efficiency. But the bean counters and lawmakers get more and more involved, hence such tedious regulations, no one can remember and comply with. Youv'e got to have post doctorate in aircraft systems to analyze faults, look at JHW remarks about displays, who can know all this in midair? Now pilots have too many optional possibilities when an unusual fault shows up. Wrong design, the pilot should have an automatic fault isolation system, not only autoflight, so that he can focus on correct situation awarenes and decision making.

As example, the NASA Space Shuttle is so complex that the decisions are not made in such situations by the pilot or mission commander but by the ground based program director who utilizes dozens of experts. My good friend Mike Smith perished as pilot during the SST Challenger launch 26 January 1986, because the launch director determined it would be the best course of action to launch it out of OAT envelope. Mike could do nothing except comply. Same with the Columbia disaster, which occurred because no heat resistant panels replaced the missing ones. The crew practices that routine because it is necessary to guarantee safe reentry, but cannot decide to implement it when necessary. Management improved? Mental state and judgement major major failures!

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers wrote

Hmmm ... would the workload of a modern, electronics-equipped manager in a business be higher than that of her counterpart in the 1950s?

Maybe electronics and automation are used to increase the mental workload of a human, which then is believed to increase productivity? And then the question comes: what is gained by increasing a pilot's productivity? The plane does not move any faster. Maybe he's taking over work from previously ground-based people, such as dispatchers, bean counters, etc.? First the industry reduces cockpit crew to two, and they cannot get much lower without currently expected redundancy (needed or not). So next they try to move other jobs into the pilot's brain?


Jeroen

This morning I made my final decision on my flight school. Thanks for all the advise, its' been helpfull.

I've spoken to five flight schools in the Kansas City area. All of them were pretty pleasant and informative. However, I wasn't overly impressed with some of the answers I got on things that are important to me.

Probably the most important part for me is finding an instructor that you feel comfortable with. I've met with various instructors and I assume they're all good pilots, but I'm not so sure on their instructor skills. Teaching is something akin to a calling/art/profession rolled into one.

I've signed up with http://www.kcflight.com/

I'll be training on Cessna C-152 and C-172. Not brand new aircraft. I probed the various instructors on their vision on what the best approach was, e.g. start on steam gauge, get your license then go to glass etc. etc.


Did not get very good answers. Thought most of it was a lot of baloney, or reflection on their respective fleet than a well thought out answer.

Maybe I'm just old, but I like to be able to do everything myself before I let electronics/automation take over. Computers don't intimidate me in the least, but I always think you get more out of them if you understand what they are doing. I used to do a lot of yachting and I really enjoy the GPS, rolling maps and what have you. But I will allways have a paper nautical chart at the ready as well. And I tend to use both in parallel if I find myself in unfamiliar waters. Check and double check and the only way to stay proficient. I still pride myself on being able to use a sextant, tables and clock and calculate/plot my position into a chart.

Just finalised my application to the TSA which is now waiting for approval by my flight school. As I have a L-1 Visa there is no requirement for the flight school to be SEVIS approved.

It'll take a couple of weeks apparently to get the formal TSA approval. Which works well for me as I set of for a long weekend in Washington DC and a business trip to Stockholm.

So with luck I'll be starting somewhere mid-June. The air field is pretty close to my office, so I'm going to try and cram as many hours flying in a week as I can before and after work.

Ordered a few books on FAA regulations and examination test.

Looking forward to staring my new hobby!

Jeroen

Lucky you!

Congratulations, Jeroen.

Sigh, this brings back memories ...


Cheerio,

|-|ardy

Good luck with the lessons, I still remember my first solo in a Piper.

Many many years ago. That first solo approach seemed like it was soooo fast, 70 knots onto a 5000 ft runway. That first take off, I remember climbing out over the end of the runway, then it hit me, crap, that was the easy part,......

Take care, have fun.....

Dell

Just an update where I am with my flying ambitions:

I've been taking lessons now for about 8 weeks and today I went solo for the first time! I fly out of Johnson County Executive in Kansas. We flew to a smaller field nearby, Lee Summit, did a few touch and go's. Then my instructor told me: Ok I want you to do three more and I won't say anything or do anything. If it all goes well, and you feel comfortable make the third landing a full stop and I'll get out.

On the second run, on final just above the runway threshold he told me to go around. Not that anything was wrong, but he wanted to see me do a go around as well. Made the third landing a full stop, instructor got out and I was all by myself in my Cessna 152. Did two touch and go's and the third one full stop, picked up my instructor and we headed back to County Executive.

Great experience! I had been looking forward to it. Last tim we flew, we discussed that if the weather was fine I should go solo. I've also joined one of the local flying clubs. One of the main reasons being that I thought it would be fun/interesting to be part of a group of pilots. Lots of knowledge and experience which I will be relying on heavilly for many flying hours to come.

Jeroen

Congrats! Now remember the throttle to bottle rule!


Jeroen

Congrats.

No matter what the FAA says, now that you have soloed you are a pilot. Welcome to the club.

From now on don't get discouraged by the inevitable plateau that happens - many students give up. You progress and learn so much up until the solo, then students often pick things up less quickly and may have trouble in a particular area and get frustrated. This is normal!

Eventually, it will all come together and you will get it, feel comfortable, but not so arrogant you feel that you can handle anything. At that point - you are ready for your checkride.

Keep us posted.

- Stekeller
KBDL (temporarily)

Congrats, Jeroen! By the way, there's a lot of free and *really* good literature by the FAA on the internet: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/ , http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft and a couple more. I did some research for my Instrument Rating and found some really useful stuff there, something we pay too many bucks for in Germany and probably in the Netherlands, too.

Cool well done, now you belong to the "Club" did you notice that your aircraft really flew without the extra weight? the next thing is your long X country right 300nm triangulated try to something to tax you. i.e. Try to use all the different airspace do at least one take and landing from a real busy International airport (yes in the states you can)

Also never hand your license to the FAA..they can see it but don't let them hold it...have your instructor talk to you about "ramp checks' after your FAA PPL just hours build towards your IR by the way do not take the IR exam here they do not cross populate. try to fly in real IR conditions but you are in a good place re weather so you might consider moving? above all don't cheat yourself ie sneek a peek out to the side with the IR hood curtain hood:

Now if you want to fly for a living, you want that Jet job asap (here it happens at 250TT) once you have the PIC time then return to Europe :-) I would suggest this:

Stop once you have your FAA PPL... Get that transferred to JAA PPL ASAP

get your JAA exams upto ATPL out of the way return the the US train and Fly to the IR CPL ME then return or arrange for a JAA IR CPL ME flight test here. An even cheaper place is South Africa and they fly to JAA standards

Never pay for a type rating, and never offer to fly for free. If it feels unsafe then it is unsafe.

Great! Congratulations, Jeroen!

Cheers,
Martin

Congratulations on the solo! I remember when I was supposed to solo on July 4rth 2009 at KEMT. AOPA was promoting "Freedown to Fly” making the traffic pattern too busy for a student pilot. I eventually soloed later, and the cross-country came in September.

Prior to getting my license, I had lots of apprehension about piloting a small plane, but its all past, and I am convinced flying is easier than driving, though statistically GA is supposedly more dangerous than driving a car.

Got the license at the end of 2009 and flew plenty in 2010, even bought a Garmin Aera and PCAS MRX (Passive Collision Avoidance System). The Garmin is like “glass” for the VFR pilot. I looked into buying a small plane, maybe even experimental, though dropped the idea when I realized flying is cool as a hobby, but I don’t do it that much. I think the novelty wears out after you get there. Now I fly once in a while to enjoy it.

I can say getting a PPL has given me a deep appreciation for all flight simulators, esp. the non-FAA sims that tend to be leaps and bounds better than the “approved” ones.

I do go on-line with Vatsim to maintain some degree of currency.

Quote

Now if you want to fly for a living,

For those of us who are older , this is not impossible. I personally heard about a pilot who got hired at age 51, first commercial job with an well known freight carrier, but didn't work out because of personality issues. If I didn't have to work, I'd try this option; fly as a matter of principle since money doesn’t matter. I have to believe that first commercial pilots job at 51 will not permit a sustainable lifestyle for someone that age.

@ Tom that is true Delta will take you up until you are 50...It would be a hard slog at that age on reserve, I would guess you would never get to the heavy metal either but locked in seat doing 7 or 8 legs a day plus the commute either end for very little reward... It would kill me and I am in my naughty forties.

Very very true about personality, no one wants to be next to some grumpy moaning unhappy person or a know it all but much worse a "born again" nightmare all the way round

Congratulations! Welcome to the club. Did they cut your shirt tail off?

Yep, that tradition is still very much alive!
Jeroen

Awwwww, that's great to hear!

Well, I did it guys!
Just came back from one of the most intense afternoon I've ever had. Just passed my check ride! Got my temporary airman certificate and the permanent should arrive in the mail in a few months.

Even though the weather was fine for VFR flying as far as visibility and clouds concerned, there was an awful lot of wind. luckily straight from the South and my runway was 18. But still 16 knots, gusting to 22 makes for interesting landing.

My home base is KOJC and I took my check ride in KMHL. About 93 miles. Took us all but 35 minutes to fly out there. Close to 40 knots tailwinds and lots of turbulence. I'd never flown in that area so we spend about an hour and a half checking out the terrain and going through most of the check ride manoevres.

I was completely ticketed out afterwards. My flight instructor had come with me and he flew us home most of the way.

Congratulations!


|-|

Congratulations, was your check in a 172? I think those things are more stable in wind than a 152.

Congratulations!

I can't think of too many things that one can become certified for that would be as satisfying and rewarding.
-------------------------
Various friends and colleagues have obtained private licenses over the years. Most of them also went on to obtain instrument ratings as well as a commercial rating. I think the commercial rating was obtained not to fly for pay but so that they could participate fully in some flying club group activities, etc, but other details are lost in the fog of now distant memories.

Do you plan to acquire other ratings, such as an instrument rating?

I did most of my training and check ride in a Cessna 152. I've also joined the local flying club. We have four planes, the 152 being one of them. I want to get checked out on the other three planes as well. That requires some ground school and flight instruction. No check ride, it's an endorsement in your log book and my flight instructor can do that.

Next I will also go for my INstrument rating. It'll provide additional safety, but also you don't get grounded because the weather happens to be below VFR limits.

Jeroen

As some of you might know, we will be leaving Kansas City shortly for Delhi, India. One thing I'm very likely to miss is my new flying hobby! Truth be told I haven't flown much in the past few months because of the new Delhi job, which meant extensive travel.

We are enjoying our last US holiday in California. My wife and daughter have been spending the last few days at a Barbie convention in Orange County and I was left to my own devices. Saw and did lots of stuff. By pure chnace I ran into a flight school that Specialized in Cirrus aircraft. I always wanted to fly one. I have been looking into buying and owning a plane. And this one ranks very high on my personal favourites!

So I rented one, with CFI. See http://www.calaironline.com/index.html

Had a great time! The Cirrus uses a sidestick and I found it very easy to get used to, comes very natural. We took of from Zamperini field in IMC conditions. Very short IFR hop to get us on top of the clouds where we went VFR. I spend some time going through basic manoevres to familiarizes myself with the handling of The Cirrus. Than we set off to see Hollywood and downtown LA. Very busy airspace all around. After that little tour we set of to Catalina, an Island of the coast od LA. It has a nice little airstrip called Catalina. They had a fly-In that day. Lots of planes out there. Several pilots clearly hadnt got a clue how to fly a pattern on a non towered airport! Still, everybody made it safely onto the ground.

We used the autopilot for a while. First ever for me! Landing at Catalina is interesting as the airport is on a ridge and was only just above the clouds. No visual clues, so you need to fly the numbers pretty accurately. Its also a pretty narrow runway. Managed allright.

Had a coffee and took of again back to Zampiri field. Flew back on autopilot and used it for our descend to about 500 AGL where I took over a landed.

All in all a great day! Obviously, its difficult to get a real feel for a plane in just a few hours. Especially when you're like me a low hour pilot. But I was very impressed, how it flew, handled, and the glass cockpit is really neat.
Many "firsts" for me on this flight:

First flight in a Cirrus
First time flying a plane with a side stick
First time flying glass (other than my full motion 744 hours)
First time flying IMC (somehow all my IFR training was done in perfect VFR weather)
First time using auto pilot
First time flying in such busy airspace (believe me California is very different from Kansas)

One of my sons and I are visiting Oshkosh in about two weeks. Guess Ill be spending a lot of time at the Cirrus stand!

Jeroen