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PDF SOP 747-400

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Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Britjet wrote
"Note: AFDS uses the speed set in the IAS/MACH window for V2."


OK, confirmed :-)


|-|ardy
Member
Registered: May 2010
Posts: 843
P.S. My FCOM doesn't add a note at the end, but inserts it into the earlier text with parentheses.

I'm not sure how Vr fits into this. You would think the speed shouldn't drop below a certain value, but the guidance has to be independent of FMC entries during TO mode (for when the FMC is inoperative). On the other hand, maybe it's just not that smart. Stall Card computed stall speed may be the only lower limitation.
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Hi,

I found this interesting discussion : B744 MCP Airspeed Setting (V2 Versus V2+10)

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/283956-b744-mcp-airspeed-setting-v2-versus-v2-10-a.html
« Last edit by Double-alpha on Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:32:13 +0000. »
Member
Registered: May 2010
Posts: 843
Actually, I was aware of this PPRuNe posting :mrgreen: I was just wondering what your source was and whether a certain American airline was still using the V2+10 setting (in contravention of Boeing ops)
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Hello,

It mainly comes from Boeing (who uses of course V2).
I decided initially to choose V2+10 (anyway V2 in the new PDF) when I loaded departure.situ from instructor page to take some screenshots of the MCP speed setting : you can notice that the MCP speed is already set to V2+10 (if you assume that V2 in TAKEOFF REF page is correct!).

I do not know for American airline or other...

Regards

Adrien
Member
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 87
Location: KMEM
John H Watson wrote
Actually, I was aware of this PPRuNe posting :mrgreen: I was just wondering what your source was and whether a certain American airline was still using the V2+10 setting (in contravention of Boeing ops)


Pre-Merger NWA was V2
UAL is V2
DAL is V2
CKS is V2
GTI is V2

An airline can ask Boeing for whats called an "NTO" - No Technical Objection, so maybe this carrier had done that.
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Thank you dougsnow for the clarification
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Hi,

I didn't fly yesterday (I am OFF!) so I had time to write a third version to make it more clear, simple and understandable (I hope) :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d72oxcs3uvzpwlu/747_sop2.pdf?dl=0

It seemed to me that a few items were a bit confusing or not relevant for the first virtual flight (INBD CRT selector:EICAS...)
In addition, I noticed one or two omissions (for exemple : maintenance panel checks, AFT CARGO HT as required after start, ...)

I tried also to be more coherent with PROCEDURES section you can read in Hardy Heinlein manual page 554 (for exemple : STANBY POWER test that you can find only in FCOM supplementary elec procedures = removed).

I removed flap speed additives that don't exist in boeing SOP (SOP request to set MCP to flaps maneuvering instead of flaps maneuvering speed + 10 kt).


You can download a PDF file of my "visual" keyboard summary : it could be helpful if you use keyboard only for your first flights.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rgv0mobp9xfmv8/psx_keyboard.pdf?dl=0
« Last edit by Double-alpha on Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:27:56 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Dec 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Just one further point if you have time before you go to press for a further iteration ...

pp 27 Automatic Engine Start Sequence

Boeing FCOM & All Airline SOP dictate the Start Selector is pulled BEFORE the Fuel Control is positioned to RUN.

It might be helpful here to also add in a section for PW equipped aircraft not fitted with AUTOSTART (SQ & UAL) immediately spring to mind.

In addition a sequence for a Manual Start might be helpful.

Just some thoughts.
_______________
Steve Bell
aka The CC
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Mistyping error, fixed soon , tky

BUT, In Hardy Heinlein Aerowinx Manual, I checked (autostart) :
1 fuel control switch RUN
2 engine start switch PULL

2 then 1 in my FCOM

Hardy, Could you confirm ??
« Last edit by Double-alpha on Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:31:21 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Dec 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
From a 'vanilla' Boeing 747-FCOM Vol 1 Normal Procedures, Engine Start Sequence:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8gixlrvls7v6rn/ENG%20Start.jpg?dl=0

Also move this vid fwd to 3m 45 sec to see the procedure in action.

https://youtu.be/nhXXjNybx6A
_______________
Steve Bell
aka The CC
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
OK we have now for Engine Start sequence :

1 engine start switch PULL
2 fuel control switch RUN
Member
Registered: Dec 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Check!

8)
_______________
Steve Bell
aka The CC
Member
Registered: Jan 2013
Posts: 318
Location: YSSY
Hi,

this is very well done, thanks! Couple of points for refinement:

I'd recommend on initial flight deck prep (page 3) to also check the brake accumulator pressure, and always set #4 HYD demand pump to AUX, never OFF (in the cold and dark cockpit anyway). This is because the ground handling bus powers this pump (as does the APU). The accumulator itself was not designed to stop the airplane. While there may be some pressure left, it may not be enough to keep the airplane from rolling once the chocks (or tug) are removed... embarrassment ensues. Unless Hardy didn't model that, which I consider unlikely. :-) Once brake accumulator pressure has been confirmed, re-set the parking brake to make sure there's enough pressure on the disks.

The second point regards the AC packs: I don't think takeoffs are ever performed with all the packs off, at least not in my memory. Usually two packs are switched off, but one remains on. After all we want a pleasurable 500fpm or less cabin rate. I can't find anything in my old manuals regarding all packs off for performance, but it is of course conceivable that you might just squeeze that extra rounding error out of your takeoff calculations... :)

Cheers

- Balt
Member
Registered: Dec 2009
Posts: 334
Location: KTPA
BA used to be 300T+ packs off (my current MO). If it has changed, perhaps Peter can advise current status.....?

C
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
BA is 300+ packs off. Different airlines do it different ways, though.
The cabin is very slow to climb even with the packs off, so it isn't really an issue.
It saves messing about with isolation valves...
"Packs off" will generally increase TOPL by about 2 tonnes.


With regard to #4 AUX pump being switched ON.
You never pressurise a hydraulic system without ground clearance. ( because of gear doors, flaps, flight controls etc). There is quite enough pressure in the brake accumulator to maintain the park brake, and on most departures the aircraft is chocked anyway..
Leave it until the before start procedure...

Peter.
« Last edit by Britjet on Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:43:31 +0000. »
Member
Registered: May 2010
Posts: 843
Quote
The second point regards the AC packs: I don't think takeoffs are ever performed with all the packs off, at least not in my memory.


My old airline in recent times started doing no pack takeoffs for all flights.

Quote
The accumulator itself was not designed to stop the airplane. While there may be some pressure left, it may not be enough to keep the airplane from rolling once the chocks (or tug) are removed..


It's hard to know where to draw the line on levels of safety., but as a former ground engineer, I would never blame the pilot for letting the plane roll away. Either the chocks should be in or the tug attached to the nose (engine running and driver in his seat). Engineers give the pilot the signal to release the brakes, except on freighters where the brakes aren't parked anyway (as it can interfere with the Weight & Balance System). As Britjet says, you can't just turn on pumps without getting clearance. Control surfaces will move.

Rgds
JHW
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Member
Registered: Jan 2013
Posts: 318
Location: YSSY
Well, I've been out of the loop for far too long apparently, disregard my suggestions! :-)

Cheers

- Balt
Member
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 155
Hey AA,

great contribution! Actually working through your SOP v3. The only thing that I am missing so far is page numbering ... Maybe you could be so kind and upload the PDF with page numbering that refers to the table of contents - that would be great!

Another suggestion would be to upload the "raw" file in a more common format; I'd appreciate an .odf file (Open document format). As far as I know MS Word can im- and export this file type, too. And users of OpenOffice / LibreOffice and so on would be able to better use the document (it can be imported in AbiWord and OO but has some formatting glitches).

Cheers
Dennis
_______________
Cheers
)ennis
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Hi dennis

You re welcome.
I am going to see this later... (Busy right now!!)
Check your post about your COMM panel, I noticed something maybe wrong...

Regards

Adrien
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
Hello,

New update (version 4) :

PDF :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sul16rsgfuxar8v/747_sop4.pdf?dl=0

DOCX :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c8xyer0wr8mae7x/747_sop4.docx?dl=0

ODT :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkh4o65r9e01o0s/747_sop4.odt?dl=0


-PDF with page numbering now...
-new chapter about AFDS modes
-minor modifications



Regards

Adrien
« Last edit by Double-alpha on Fri, 29 May 2015 05:16:30 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Location: Vienna
Thanks! 8)
BR Hans
_______________
Hans G. Schuetz
http://B747-400.net
Member
Registered: Mar 2015
Posts: 60
Location: NTAA
you re welcome!

Adrien
Member
Registered: Jun 2015
Posts: 3
Thanks Adrien, it's really helping me and so well put together!
cheers Kabbers

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