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Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
jcomm wrote
... during flare, the armed A/T all of a sudden decided to kick in and "give me speed" instead of going to idle :-(

On the 744, an armed A/T will never kick in (engage) on its own. When the A/T mode annunciation is blank, it stays blank.

Perhaps you had the HOLD or SPD mode engaged. That means engaged, that is more than just armed. When the first missed approach leg becomes active and you're in VNAV, the THR REF mode will engage for the go-around. This happens only if any A/T mode is already engaged, incl. HOLD. This will not happen if your A/T is disengaged and armed.

Or you accidentally pushed a TOGA switch while retarding the throttles.

Or, by "kick in", you mean the A/T "advanced the throttles" and it hasn't been disengaged at all.


Cheers,

|-|ardy
Member
Registered: Dec 2011
Posts: 497
Location: Portugal
Yes Hardy,

I am sure that, while the A/P was On, I had selected APP, thus causing the 3 channels to become active, and LAND3 was announced. I then disconnected the A/P, and manually flew the final app, and, as I was about to start my flare, the power came back in, and it ended in a go-around :-/

So, the most probable cause was me hitting the TO/GA key in my joystick unintentionally ...
_______________
Jose Monteiro
« Last edit by jcomm on Mon, 16 Feb 2015 09:35:37 +0000. »
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Member
Registered: Dec 2011
Posts: 497
Location: Portugal
Hardy,

I'm aware of that, but, I thought that in the 400 series we could leave the A/T engaged, down to touchdown and rollout, and it would automatically retard the throttles to idle during the flare ( I believe the trigger must be some radio alt... 25 ft ??? )

What happened in my approach, and I regret not having saved the situ :-/, was that after disengaging the A/P I left the A/T engaged all the way to touchdown, but, as soon as I started to flare, instead of moving to idle, the throttles moved up towards TO/GA.

Again, I am sure I must have done something wrong, and also, this didn't happen with the latest version, but some 10 versions away, I believe....

I still think that I must have accidentally pressed the TO/GA button programmed on my Saitek Rhino throttle unit :-/
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Jose Monteiro
« Last edit by jcomm on Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:24:51 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Sydney
Isn't it usually company policy to disengage both the A/P and A/T at the same time?

Throttles only retard to idle with rollout with A/P and A/T engaged (precision approach).
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 374
Location: LLBG
If you only disengage the A/P, A/T remains active (probably in SPD mode). A/T commands the thrust levers to idle around 20 ft RA only when A/P is engaged. In your situation A/T was active (A/P wasn't), at flare you pitched up and you started to loss speed so the A/T advanced the throttles to compensate that. That's it.

Cheers,
_______________
Avi Adin
LLBG
Member
Registered: Dec 2011
Posts: 497
Location: Portugal
Avi wrote
If you only disengage the A/P, A/T remains active (probably in SPD mode). A/T commands the thrust levers to idle around 20 ft RA only when A/P is engaged. In your situation A/T was active (A/P wasn't), at flare you pitched up and you started to loss speed so the A/T advanced the throttles to compensate that. That's it.

Cheers,


Ok! That must have been the case indeed!!!!!

Thx for the tip!

I was used to the PMDG 777-200, where landing can be accomplished flying manually, but with A/T engaged, and it retards to idle during flare, automatically, disengaging only as I set reverse ...
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Jose Monteiro
« Last edit by jcomm on Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:28:00 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
New video posted on "The Fix Page". Sorry, the definition isn't as good as I would have hoped - I will try to make things "bigger" in future.
I hope it is of some value nonetheless.

Cheers,

Peter.
Member
Registered: Jun 2014
Posts: 317
Thats for your invaluable videos :) Perhaps you could demystify the equi-time point on Altantic crossings?
Member
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 21
Location: UK
Hi Peter,

I have been watching your videos with great interest ever since you published them.

A masterclass in tips and techniques, which has truly enhanced my overall experience of PSX.

Thank you for taking the time to produce the videos.

Kind regards

Raj
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
Thanks GodAtum,

There is no easy way to work out an equal-time point on the 747. On an Atlantic crossing the various maritime airfields (eg Ireland, Azores, Iceland, Eastern Seaboard, Greenland etc) go in and out of the calculation as you proceed, so it is really a "moveable feast.."

Most commercial flight plans will offer "equal-time" points for Atlantic crossings but they aren't usually terribly relevant. For example they might offer CYQX/EINN which would be useful if you were actually on a straight line between those two airfields, but otherwise not at all.

Putting large range rings such as the maximum allowed of 511nm is a great help, but the remainder is largely a case of looking at wind charts and having an idea of groundspeed in each direction. Of course putting the airfield in the FIX page will make it more precise.
Newer aircraft, such as the 777, which has an "ALTERNATES" page, can make a better judgement.

There is a thing called a PNR (Point of No Return) which will be calculated if range is strictly limited, and would signify an absolute point between isolated airfields if fuel was tight, and might still be relevant with short-range aircraft, but doesn't apply to long-range aircraft. I seem to remember Capt John Wayne being caught out by the PNR in "The High and the Mighty" as he flew a DC6 (I think) across the Pacific.
They had real pilots in those days LOL!

Of course the PNR (as well as the Equal Time point) takes into account the wind component.

Cheers,

Peter
« Last edit by Britjet on Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:57:40 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
Thank you Raj, that is very kind of you.
Peter
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
Just a heads up..

I am thinking of producing videos on the following:-

1) Approach configuration - flap and speed selection on various type of approach.
2) Tips for accurate landings
3) Circuits, Circling procedures
4) Non precision approaches - NDB, VOR, RNAV etc
5) Diversions
6) Engine failures

I might go on to a sort of "advanced" look at generic non-normal handling and some specific failure situations. e.g. Hydraulics, Flight Controls etc

How does this sound? Comments and suggestions very welcome.

Cheers!

Peter
« Last edit by Britjet on Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:08:58 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 84
Location: New Jersey
This would be great Peter especially the first one. I often get caught up with "am I too fast too slow?" for the approach so that would be really helpful. All of your suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks again for your time and the excellent vids.
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Joe
Member
Registered: Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
Thanks Adrian. A very nice idea for a video. I will add it to the list!

Peter
Member
Registered: Feb 2015
Posts: 23
Location: Stockholm
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
Thanks Tord,

That's another good idea...

Peter
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 80
Hi Peter,
Many Thanks. Your style is just perfect!
Just one question - I've subscribed to your YouTube Channel but it does not show any videos there. To find the videos I have to go to your post here.
It would be wonderful if when you post a new video, I'm alerted through the YouTube subscription alert system.
Again, thanks for all your effort and advice.
_______________
Greetings from the rice fields of Thailand (VTUJ),
Chris Stanley.
Member
Registered: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
Location: Camberley, UK
Hi Chris

The videos are "unlisted" in Youtube - you can only access them via the links above.
I have no videos which can be subscribed. Sorry!

Peter
Member
Registered: Dec 2011
Posts: 497
Location: Portugal
Britjet wrote
I am thinking of producing videos on the following:-

1) Approach configuration - flap and speed selection on various type of approach.
2) Tips for accurate landings
3) Circuits, Circling procedures
4) Non precision approaches - NDB, VOR, RNAV etc
5) Diversions
6) Engine failures
7) Use of Route 2

I might go on to a sort of "advanced" look at generic non-normal handling and some specific failure situations. e.g. Hydraulics, Flight Controls etc

How does this sound?


It sounds like Heaven Peter! Looking forward to it!
_______________
Jose Monteiro
Member
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 148
Location: Loomis California (near Sacramento)
I've been modifying my web page, and as a part of the modifications I've set side an aerowinx folder.

I've put the links to the training videos there.

Britjet, I hope this is ok with you, if not I'll remove them.

The main page is http://kingmont.com, and the aerowinx directory is in the frp://ftp.kinhmont.com link there under flightsims.

The mods to the main page are still incomplete, so some of the links there may be inop.

jj
Member
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 148
Location: Loomis California (near Sacramento)
typo, it should have read ftp://ftp.kingmont.com
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 269
Location: between EDDF and EDDN
Hi Peter,

I just want thank you very much for producing these interesting and informative videos. They are really great.

Peter
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 175
Location: NZAA
Hello Peter,
Thank you for your great videos. Watching them (repeatedly) makes me realize how little I know in understanding the Queen, but at least I am learning!

Cheers,

Derek

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