Old 744 Forum

Archived posts

setups

Page: 1 2 >

Author Post
Member
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 148
Location: Loomis California (near Sacramento)
It would be very interesting to have a DETAILED thread listing the setups being used by those (LUCKY) folks who have been assisting in testing the sim.

By"detailed" I mean the EXACT configuration of the system being used, (including the model numbers of things such as video cards monitors etc.)

In considering the possible rebuilding of things here, such a listing would be VERY helpful!.

I saw a reference in one of the messages on the forum regarding touch screen monitors for example. I've no idea what I should be considering).
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
I, for one, use:

iMac 2.93 GHz, Intel Core 2 Duo, 1920 x 1200 pixels. PSX frame rate: 30-72 fps

iMac 3.20 GHz, Intel Core i5, 2560 x 1440 pixels. PSX frame rate: always 68 fps


Regards,

|-|ardy
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 772
Location: Sydney, Australia
It doesn't run on a Raspberry Pi. :)

Surface Pro 1 Core i5 3317U 1.7Ghz 4Gb RAM Windows 8.1 64bit - runs at 50 - 70 frames per second on final approach into PHNL with FO PFD, ND, upper EICAS and outside view squeezed into the frames.

1920x1080 res. Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000 display.
_______________
« Last edit by John Golin on Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:19:25 +0000. »
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 772
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re touch screens - my own personal feelings are mixed. For some parts of the sim it works well, for others I find it fiddly and sometimes impossible to do what I want. I have only used the small Surface touchscreen so bear that in mind.

This is a full PC program, not an app, so in my opinion being able to use touch is nice where possible, but the richness of the simulator doesn't always lend itself to touch control...
_______________
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 958
Location: Chicago
I basically see what Hardy sees. I have a 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3 iMac with 8 GB RAM and ATI Radeon HD 5670 video (1920 x 1080), and I always get 45+ fps, even in the most challenging environment, such as the busy Default.situ (final approach) which has lots of visible airport detail (runway lights and beacons), busy weather radar, terrain mapping, lightning, turbulence, rain splattering all over the windshield, windshield wipers visibly swiping to and fro, and all the rest including all of the associated sounds. Trust me that 45+ fps is more than enough to ensure a buttery smooth visual experience.

PSX never has any stutters, pauses, or delays.

In a typical cruise situ, even with a beautiful sunset, I get 68 fps, rock solid all the time, no downticks.

I also use a wireless non-keypad keyboard and a wireless trackpad, which are sufficient for controlling the sim if that helps, although a keypad and a mouse with a wheel would possibly make certain things easier. Oh, and I also use a Saitek USB joystick with a custom mapping.
_______________
Will /Chicago /USA
« Last edit by Will on Tue, 24 Jun 2014 04:45:47 +0000. »
Member
Registered: Jun 2014
Posts: 317
Thinking about hardware, would a i7 4770k with a Nvidia 780Ti be able to run 4 PSX instances (CP side, FO side, 2x CDU)?
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
Dell Latitude D430, Intel Core2 @ 1.2GHz, 2Gb memory, XP. Works like a charm at 1920x1080 but of course does not go beyond about 14 fps in the ultra-demanding default situ. Note well -- 10-14 fps when still smooth as silk. Ok, the displays may jump in 0.5 mm increments instead of in pixel. But this is still very pleasant to work with. PSX scales down so gracefully that it becomes eerie. No stutters, no jumps, totally predictable, and probably not even noticeable unless you have seen the 70 fps variant.

I think it is comparable to the experience people had with their first HD exposure, or first Apple exposure, etc. It is not required, but easier on the eyes. A good, smooth 10 fps is preferable over a hiccupping stuttering on-off 30 fps.


Hoppie
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
For frame rate tests I would recommend to set moderate turbulence or crosswind gusts, or just do some aerobatics. This forces the PFD speed, attitude, heading, and altitude indicators, and the ND, to operate in a higher frame rate mode in order to provide maximum smoothness.

On a straight flight track, where speed, heading, altitude etc. change by 0.001 units only once per week, the required power is very low and the FPS indication goes up, because most of the power is then used just by the windshield which always runs at the highest frame rate mode. As the windshield scenery is simplified, it has not much influence. Just do something with your flight track; change headings, speeds, altitudes ... continuously. Don't fly on a straight track in steady winds, that's not demanding.


Cheers,

|-|ardy
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
This was NOT a straight flight track :-D
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
It was just a general tip for everyone :-)
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 171
Location: Denmark
Hi

Just wondering if PSX outside view window can be maximized to fit full screen?

Would be nice to have ultimate smoothness until I invest in a high end PC for external scenery generation :)

Cheers

Kurt
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
You can show any part of the flight deck frame.

You can zoom any part of the flight deck frame up to zoom factor 3.0.

You can resize the flight deck frame as you like.

It's all flexible. Zoom, pan, divide.

The "flight deck frame" is the PSX frame on your computer's desktop. The other frame in PSX is the Instructor frame.


Cheers,

|-|ardy
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
For clarification:

A PSX "frame" can be thought of as a "window" -- it is a rectangular, individually sizeable and movable computer display artifact. Most programs are usually displayed in a window. PSX has two windows: the simulator flight deck frame and the instructor frame.

The instructor frame appears and disappears on ESC key presses, but can also be minimized. The instructor frame is always a normal window. It has the usual OS-dependent decoration frame and associated buttons. On Microsoft Windows, minimize, maximize/restore, close. You can drag it off to a side monitor and leave it open all the time. Most changes you make are instantly reflected on or by the main flight deck frame, there is no "jump out of the sim" or pausing or whatever. It is an instructor panel -- instructing is a live, parallel activity.

The main flight deck frame can behave like the instructor frame, but you have the preference option "Show title, frame, and buttons of desktop window". If you de-select this, you drop the OS-dependent decoration frame. The visible flight deck expands to occupy the space previously taken by the decoration frame. If the frame happened to be maximized when you drop the decoration frame, it will also expand to cover the Windows Task Bar, and you get a full screen display, F11-style.

Within the flight deck frame you have the four rectangular segments. These are for conveniently looking at different parts or zooms of the complete flight deck, including the windshield segment. In cockpit mockups, these will often not be used. Instead you want multiple independent flight deck frames, that you can move around between monitors and/or computer systems. In order to achieve this, run multiple PSX instances, on the same box or on multiple boxes. Each PSX instance produces one new frame (plus an instructor frame if you insist).

If you want just the Captain's Clock displayed, drag the green segment dividers to the edge, pan the flight deck to center on the clock, and zoom in. There, a clock instrument, ready to be moved around on your monitors to wherever you want it.

A dedicated Instructor Station would still have a flight deck window, but reduced to 10 x 10 pixels and eternally minimized.

Since the individual instances run their own graphics and short-term other simulations, but are kept "lipsync" by the network, you get a smooth overall system that is not much heavier than one "big" PSX.


Hoppie
« Last edit by Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:50:44 +0000. »
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Additional clarification for future PSX users:

I intentionally use the word "frame" because if I would say "flight deck window", you would think I mean the "flight deck windshield".

Windshields and panels are shown in the PSX flight deck frame. Everything inside the flight deck frame be can panned, zoomed, divided.

Please note that the maximization feature of "Microsoft Windows" is not available in Apple OS X. The OS X menu bar is always visible at the top.


|-|
Member
Registered: Jun 2014
Posts: 317
Would a 12 core Xeon make a huge difference to a 4770k? or will clock speed make more of an impact?
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
GotAtum, your questions are too specific :-) We are not able to test every single computer currently on the market, unfortunately.
Member
Registered: Jun 2014
Posts: 317
Lol :P If I make my question more general, which is better for PSX, CPU clock speed or number of cores?
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Both.

But, for a single PSX, I think more than 8 cores wouldn't be an improvement.
Member
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 29
I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina display, which I use when I'm traveling. Unfortunately it comes with an integrated video card (Intel HD5000). I'm hopeful it will work Ok with PSX (fingers crossed).

cheers
-Enrique
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 241
Hi guys!

I have quite a complex combination of Mac OSX Snow Leopard / Windows (7 & 8.1) and Linux (Fedora, Mandriva, and Ubuntu computers as an extensive testing bed and future (dual-pilots) flight deck! And, after installing Java on each of those computers, PSx runs fully fine, no tweaking, no hassle, and no CTD (crash to desktop)...
The most "static" parts, such as OverHead Panel, Center Console (audio, radios, weather radar, transponder), and instructor's window are fully fine, even on some good old ASUS eeePC 900. (removed WinXP, nad put Fedora on those)
For Flygenring: yep, PSx outside view can be maximized; that's what I do, getting it on 3 x 15" (3 x 1024 x 768 ) at a smooth 40+ fps (via a Matrox TripleHead2Go) on an old MacMini from late 2009. And it enables very precise handflying... crosswind crabbing is very impressive on such a setup too!
The best point is: splitting sound outputs! Thanks to PSx' server / clients capability, you may get engine sound (and ground roll) via subwoofers located behind / below, and airspeed sounds via small speakers being the windshield screens... and so on. And that good sound ambiance is a huge part of the immersion, at least as much as visuals!
Last thing: during PSx testing, I got "trapped" several times, taking the computer-generated rain or thunderstorms for the real ones!
_______________
Pierre, LFPG
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Hi Enrique,

I'm sorry, Retina displays do not work with PSX. They push the frame rate below 10 fps and render the panels incorrectly.


Cheers,

|-|ardy
Member
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 29
Hi Hardy thanks for your reply. I will try my luck using Linux via Parallels or something like that and see the results.

Thanks for the warning tho', saved me some initial frustration and saved you a call for support :-D

cheers
-E
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 944
Pierre Theillere wrote
Hi guys!

<snip>

The best point is: splitting sound outputs! Thanks to PSx' server / clients capability, you may get engine sound (and ground roll) via subwoofers located behind / below, and airspeed sounds via small speakers being the windshield screens... and so on. And that good sound ambiance is a huge part of the immersion, at least as much as visuals!

Last thing: during PSx testing, I got "trapped" several times, taking the computer-generated rain or thunderstorms for the real ones!


I'm still thinking a lot about how to best use my 7-channel, multi-subwoofer home theater system with PSX. Your note caused me to think further about this exciting prospect.

Do I understand your note correctly, as shown below?

Should I manually select certain speakers and locations to optimize PSX's sound experience? This is different from mostly relying on the assumed speaker channels in the multi-channel sound track on a DVD or CD. There, one typically has at least 5 explicit audio channels with an additional 2 back-center audio channels being synthesized by some home theater receivers or pre-amps.

My initial thoughts are that since very low-frequency sounds aren't accurately localized by humans, perhaps it doesn't matter very much where my subwoofers are located in the room. If your amplifiers and subwoofers are co-optimized for your room to minimize room resonance effects, I don't think it would require putting the subwoofers under your chair, as is done for the (still available???) "Butt-Kicker" brand of video game speakers. Thus, my theory is that my subwoofers should work fine where they are (in the front of the room for the most powerful pair). By "subwoofer", I don't mean a generic bass speaker, but rather a dedicated low-frequency speaker that can produce high-volume but high fidelity sound down to at least 15-20 Hz.

If all the provided sounds are actually two-channel stereo, it might work best for my home system to simply switch my receiver into what is called "all-channel stereo". This receiver mode is usually used to take a two-channel sound track and spread it around all 7 speakers (which are approximately positioned as 3 across the front, 2 in rear corners, two on the rear wall behind your head). The perceived effect is that you're surrounded by the audio instead of it just coming from two speakers in front of you. It of course doesn't work for many sound tracks - music that was recorded and mixed for stereo usually works best if played back in stereo with 2 speakers.

I assume it will require experimentation to tune how I (or others) use our audio systems, as there are both personal preference issues and a wide range of speaker and amplifier characteristics that are in play.

If one crashes one's PSX 747, is the audio experience "memorable"? (insert friendly grins here)

Regardless, having the flexibility outlined in your note is very encouraging since it provides a great deal of flexibility for the user.

Hmmm...I think I recall correctly that my receiver can take in multiple audio channels and output them with adjustable flexibility to its 7 speaker outputs... Also, each channel can be adjusted through a number of parameters...

I'm beginning to think that I may want to acquire some more computers. Perhaps a rack of multiple circuit-board style PC "blades" would make up a good PSX system?

Just thinking out loud - please comment if you have any advice or suggestions.
_______________
Best wishes,

Phil Bunch
Member
Registered: Jun 2014
Posts: 317
Interesting comments. Here is my planned setup very roughly:

User posted image

Avionics 1 & 2:
Xeon E5-2667 v3
Asus P9X79E-WS
Nvidia 780Ti


Main visual:
Intel 4770k @ 4.8 Ghz
Asus ROG VI Extreme
Nvidia 780 6GB x 3
Member
Registered: May 2012
Posts: 38
Location: Nottingham UK.
My set up details are in the air at the moment.
I am thinking of using maybe five largish ~23" Touch Screen monitors' not including scenery view."I have no room for the p.n.f."which should give me a full size display with enough room for my stumpy fingers.

Does anyone know the dimensions of the 747's cockpit sections? or point me in the right direction. There seems to be a conspiracy of silence. I have obtained the Pedestal dimensions from Jerome Merryweather's site. any other information here would be most helpful.

@ Hardy,
Apart from the installation and instructor section, I anticipate not using a Mouse or keyboard.
The Preview Manual does not mention Touch Screen at all. so would I be safe to add,
or Touch Screen, whenever the use of a Mouse is mentioned?
Also most reasonably priced monitors are refreshed at 60 Hz. or would a refresh rate of 100 Hz be essential, has this anything to do PS10.s 70 frame rates?

Kind regards.
Russell

Page: 1 2 >

Old 744 Forum is powered by UseBB 1 Forum Software