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PSX Instructor: Mac and Vista

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Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 100
Location: Vienna
Hi Pierre!

Yes I know that PS is a professional CBT used in flight schools and other institutions and many enthusiasts around the globe (I'm PS1 user since day one). With "basic" I meant the graphical representation of the environment and not the different effects on systems and aerodynamics.

Walter
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Phil Bunch wrote
Would the sliders be sufficiently accurate to initialize the airplane at cruise altitude and speed, which can be very sensitive to speed and altitude accuracy as I understand it?

The TAS slider has a resolution of 1 knot. At high altitudes this is equal to approx. 0.5 KIAS. So, way enough precision.

The altitude slider is in 100 feet increments. Also fine enough. If somebody really wants to start at, say, 24070 or 5230 feet, then fly there and save it then :-)

The change is also directly visible on the flight instruments.

Cheers,

|-|ardy
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Phil Bunch wrote
Perhaps this or other "near stalling" conditions would require a numerically accurate parameter set.


How do you do this in PS1? Do you pick up an aircraft flying on the ILS, then go to the Instructor and put it at FL 390 with TAS set to 570, then leave the Instructor and fly the aircraft at FL 390 with TAS set to 570?

No.

You wouldn't even know what TAS to enter.

Instead, you use the Instructor to make minor changes to an already loaded situation. In PS1, you click here and there, hit EDIT, type in numbers, press OK, press ESC. And then check what happened.

In PSX you move the slider while the aircraft is flying, give a little more airspeed, or little less and you see the change directly on the flight instruments. No clicking and no typing and no pausing.

The stab trim slider has a special function. It's there simply because the stab trim rate is so slow when controlled by the trim switches.

|-|
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 241
Hi Hardy!

I was the one who had suggested a "numerical indication" of the values... but you finally just managed to convince me that the resolution of the sliders was quite enough for efficient simulator use! And... I guess that getting rid from any numerical entry will make the use of touchscreen even easier!!! Same kind of interface for weather settings could be great!!!
_______________
Pierre, LFPG
Member
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 158
Hardy,
any chance of an a/c on jacks button on the instructor's page? I really wouldn't have a clue how difficult or easy to make that. Just an idea...Please educate me on this.

cheers,
delcom
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Pierre Theillere wrote
And... I guess that getting rid from any numerical entry will make the use of touchscreen even easier!!!

Eeexactly :-)


delcom wrote
any chance of an a/c on jacks

To make the tire changes easier? :-)

What else? Demonstrate gear transitions on the ground?

No problem, I think.

|-|
Member
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 158
Quote
To make the tire changes easier? :-)

What else? Demonstrate gear transitions on the ground?


These two examples are good, too. But the main benefit would be the other thousand system tests that could be performed without having the bird up in the air. Air/ground logic is a good friend of mine. :D

cheers,
delcom
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 125
It won't quite be a maintenance simulator, Delcom ;) There will be no CMC (impossibly complex).

I expect that pulling the overhead CB's will be as close as we will get to simulating air mode on the ground : )
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 100
Location: Vienna
But there will be some CMC functions - according to Hardy's post ?

http://744.hoppie.nl/forum.cgi/read/17717

Walter
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
I said "I rather like to" in context of an addon discussion, I didn't say "there will be" :-)

Developping a CMC model is impossible within the next 4 or 6 years, if at all.

If the complete FMS is already as fat as the Mount Everest, the complete CMC is the Himalaya.

PSX may get some CMC ground test functions like in PS1. But that's just a drop in the ocean (or a snow flake on the Himalaya).


Regards,

|-|ardy
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 100
Location: Vienna
Roger - I guess programming the CB's alone will be a huge task.

Cheers
Walter
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Phil Bunch wrote
Perhaps this or other "near stalling" conditions would require a numerically accurate parameter set.


I forgot to add:

It's even easier to do this with the slider: While moving the slider you'll see on the PFD – live and in color – your airspeed changing between the red limit bricks. It's direct and live at your finger tip.

If you would try the same with a numerical entry box you would have to make a dozens of trials and errors, and you would have no trend indication, no flow, nothing.

Even Airbus has a joystick instead of a numerical entry :-)

...

The same is true for daylight and season. You move the slider and you'll see immediately the daylight change. – However, if you want exact real time, just click on the real time button.

...

How good this slider system finally is can only be checked in a long practical test ... We'll see ...


Regards,

|-|ardy
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 958
Location: Chicago
Cal you use the sliders to distribute fuel amongst the tanks? (Fuel imbalance!)

Can you use the sliders to distribute pax and cargo? (Or are you limited to just ZFW and percent MAC?)
_______________
Will /Chicago /USA
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 479
Location: EFTO
Hardy Heinlin wrote
To make the tire changes easier? :-)
What else? Demonstrate gear transitions on the ground?

For the Repo Man !
[Just happened to see the movie*: Repo Man sneaks in to take away a car without the owner noticing, cracks lock, short-cuts ignition, engine roaring - but no locomotion: prudent owner has set the (driven) rear wheels on jacks...]

Cheers,
Martin

PS. Yes, doesn't work for a jet :roll: -- but then we can at least demonstrate that!

* highly recommended
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Will Cronenwett wrote
Cal you use the sliders to distribute fuel amongst the tanks? (Fuel imbalance!)


No. Refueling will be automatic like in PS1. If you want to have special tank distributions, you need to use the fuel panel on the overhead – and perhaps the sim speed factor slider to accelerate the fuel flow.


Will Cronenwett wrote
Can you use the sliders to distribute pax and cargo? (Or are you limited to just ZFW and percent MAC?)

Just ZFW and percent MAC.

PSX doesn't know what a homo sapiens or an elephant is. It just knows what a pound or a kilogram is.

The graphics in PSX show the flight deck only.


|-|ardy
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 958
Location: Chicago
Okay, then.... what about "refuel" and "defuel" options, where the desired quantity of fuel gets uploaded (or removed) in the actual amount of time that it really takes to load the aircraft? Perhaps the loading could be accomplished via ACARS. Just a thought.
_______________
Will /Chicago /USA
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 2449
Location: KTMB
How much %MAC is PSX?

*Hic* (too much wine)
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
Will Cronenwett wrote
Okay, then.... what about "refuel" and "defuel" options, where the desired quantity of fuel gets uploaded (or removed) in the actual amount of time that it really takes to load the aircraft?

Perhaps.

How long does it take?

By the way, you can also fill or defuel each tank through the network. Every variable which can be stored in a situation file can also be read and written via network – no matter if the new value comes from a client or a server.

Cheers,

|-|ardy
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 414
Location: Mumbai, India
Okay, shoot me if I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to worry that
we may be distracting Hardy with geegaws and trifles.

Cheers,
Shiv
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 149
Shiv Mathur wrote
Okay, shoot me if I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to worry that
we may be distracting Hardy with geegaws and trifles.


One person's trifle is another's critical feature ;) . But Hardy is right to remind us that not every conceivable way of using PSX has to be built into the basic platform. A lot of add-on creativity in PS1 comes from things hooked up to Broker, and PSX is being designed with networking in mind from the start. If a user gets their thrills from recreating the entire fueling process in real time, sitting on the truck and watching the gauges change, they can produce an add-on like Tug. I could imagine competitive WorldFlight style races where real-time is enforced and efficiency in the 'pit stops' is needed to win!

Cheers,
Torrence
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 146
Quote
WorldFlight style races


Knowing my luck UK Worldlfight would be hit by a spring falling off Qantas 25 ! ;)
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 48
Location: Sydney
John Davis PC wrote
Knowing my luck UK Worldlfight would be hit by a spring falling off Qantas 25 ! ;)


Aussie revenge for the Ashes :twisted:

PS
_______________
Excalibur Beechcraft driver.

"Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war."
Member
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 158
Hardy Heinlin wrote
The stab trim slider has a special function. It's there simply because the stab trim rate is so slow when controlled by the trim switches.


So this slider is already limited between 0.25-14.75 units or degrees, isn't it.

cheers,
delcom
Moderator
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 5140
The Instructor sets the actual surface angle, independent of the aircraft electronics.

The Instructor is the boss of the sim universe. What is set on the Instructor, is a fact. What the avionics do or show, may be facts or errors.

E.g. if you set on the Instructor the UTC of the sim universe, the pilot clocks and the earth's time are being set to the desired new time. Still, the pilots can set a different time on their clocks, or pull CBs to unpower the clocks. The pilot clocks do not change the earth's position. The earth's position can only be changed on the Instructor.

The stab trim system may fail or lock certain inputs and have certain maxima, but the Instructor has the final word on the actual physical stab angle.

As far as I understand it, the physical stab range is 0 to 15. Not reachable by the trim switches, but physically possible.

Cheers,

|-|ardy
« Last edit by Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:44:51 +0000. »
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 125
In ALTN Stab trim mode, the stab is only limited by the limit switches on the Stabiliser. If these limit switches fail in the closed position, then the stab will run to the physical stops (0 and 15). Highly unlikely, but not impossible. The striker arms on both switches would have to fail.

Rgds.
Q>

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