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Author Topic: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?  (Read 667 times)

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2078
WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« on: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 17:10 »
I'm not interested in an external view of the 747, so... Are there frame-rate or performance advantages to just using MSFS as nothing more than a camera? Like with no actual aircraft model selected within MSFS? (Or one that is bare bones, without eye candy or animations?)

I read that people are using the default 747-8i that ships with MSFS, but it seems like that model has a 3D cockpit and probably some impressive architecture when you look at it from the outside, which makes me think it uses lots of CPU/GPU resources to render, but all I really want is just a camera. So what's the best, most performance-optimized way to achieve this?

Please pardon my ignorance; I don't even have WidePSX yet, so I don't know what the software is capable of.

Thanks.
Will /Chicago /USA

Gary Oliver

  • Join date: May 2012
  • Location: Farnborough, UK
  • Posts: 754
    • http://www.simfest.co.uk
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 17:26 »
I posted on the fs2020 thread I started on how we have Removed the model entirely.

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2078
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 17:40 »
I see, thanks.
Will /Chicago /USA

JP59

  • Join date: Jan 2014
  • Location: France
  • Posts: 749
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 19:37 »
Hello Will,

I forward a post I did in the WidePSX tread. It has been tested since and gives a perfect clear view. The downside is that you will lose the aircraft landing lights, which are a part of the exterior model. A user reported no difference in FPS between this tweaked view and the default 747-8 cockpit with a forward camera setting (just behind the windshield).

Hello,

I investigated how to remove the virtual cockpit in the MSFS 747-8. I am away from my rig until Friday and can't test it, but I found an interesting information I would like to share. Please first backup your original model.cfg file.

Please have a look at the 7th post of this tread : https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/580448-how-do-you-remove-vc-and-or-the-and-fly-with-just-the-hud/

Edit : Windows frame will remain visible when only disabling interior view. If you want to remove everything and get a clear view you have to comment both "normal" and "interior" views

If anyone test, may you report here with screenshot or video ? I also wonder if it disables all the background glass cockpit rendering which is very CPU consuming. Do you see a positive impact on performance ? The developer mode FPS counter may help to see the CPU load (Coherent GT draws).

Best regards,
J-Philippe

However some people (me included) reached a good compromise with a custom camera setting, to get a clear view without seeing the default 747-8 cockpit (except the window post and frame, which I think gives a good immersive perspective however). Below is a picture posted by funkyhut in the WidePSX tread. MSFS is in window mode at the top of the screen, with a tweaked camera position, and PSX is at the bottom. I personally have an even more forward view in MSFS, with only the central window post visible. You can of course set the MSFS camera to suit your preferences.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ySM-54enQA9qXoepnhXzvFdZv5GNUVdt/view?usp=sharing


If you want to do some testing, there is a free and fully functional version of WidePSX available : https://www.dropbox.com/s/a501gfh75cjatk7/WidePSX_TRIAL_2.5.2.zip?dl=1

Hope this help

Regards
Jean-Philippe
« Last edit: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 18:06 by JP59 »

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2078
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:03 »
Thanks, that's very helpful!
Will /Chicago /USA

Tércio Sampaio

  • Join date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 42
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 05:33 »
Before i buy the WidePSX i still waiting for a community folder type of “aircraft” that is only camera view without any external and internal models and that not change or mess with msfs default contents. Like a windshield only view aircraft were the viewpoint is the same height of a 747 view and nothing more and it exist as a new/separated aircraft on msfs and not a substitute of an existing one.
The problem, until now all solutions shows in that links and sublinks are change the default aircraft/files of it, thats not pretty solution specially when msfs will sometimes update the default contents and or you also want to use the msfs out of psx experience.

jlpilot

  • Join date: Jul 2014
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Posts: 68
    • http://instagram.com/jl_pilot
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:52 »

Hi Tércio,

Right now there isn't a solution for a custom aircraft model for MSFS2020 but the alternative of using the default 747 works without too much hassle.

I've been doing some research into creating a custom model for MSFS2020 but it's going to take some time I think. Have you tried WidePSX in demo mode? Although there are some limitations with that model it's the best option we have for now.

Before i buy the WidePSX i still waiting for a community folder type of “aircraft” that is only camera view without any external and internal models and that not change or mess with msfs default contents. Like a windshield only view aircraft were the viewpoint is the same height of a 747 view and nothing more and it exist as a new/separated aircraft on msfs and not a substitute of an existing one.
The problem, until now all solutions shows in that links and sublinks are change the default aircraft/files of it, thats not pretty solution specially when msfs will sometimes update the default contents and or you also want to use the msfs out of psx experience.
Regards,

Jermaine.

Tércio Sampaio

  • Join date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 42
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 15:06 »
Hi,
in some way i think we can do something with the sdk, from what i saw in a website it even includes a “simple aircraft” sample. So i think it can be used to customize the name, remove the panels and outside objects and adjust the viewpoint.

funkyhut

  • Join date: Aug 2014
  • Location: Omkoi, Chiang Mai, Thailand
  • Posts: 140
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 15:30 »
Here is another layout for Britjet's Circuits 2 exercise with all the really important stuff big and in line of sight. MSFS is set on top with alwaysontop.ahk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RppN06n8Az10aU8e4st87FEUzP_mIyRq/view?usp=sharing
and the .situ file (for a 3440 x 1440 monitor)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U5kqC_4XyELqgSMUtaEYHYBXe3rrOkr1/view?usp=sharing
and the layout
https://drive.google.com/file/d/111dIyZp8TvS_1GOYmqvcPNcGi7EnemaQ/view?usp=sharing
Greetings from the mountains of Northern Thailand (VTCC),
Chris Stanley.

jlpilot

  • Join date: Jul 2014
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
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    • http://instagram.com/jl_pilot
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 19:59 »
Yea that's a good point. I'm not 100% sure but I believe you'd need some sort of structure if you'd like to attach landing and taxi lights. This could literally just be a box I guess. 

Hi,
in some way i think we can do something with the sdk, from what i saw in a website it even includes a “simple aircraft” sample. So i think it can be used to customize the name, remove the panels and outside objects and adjust the viewpoint.
Regards,

Jermaine.

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2078
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 01:44 »
I'm very curious as to whether a "simple aircraft" example would deliver an increase in performance. Intuitively, the answer would be yes, but through testing described above, the actual answer appears to be no. At least for that one user.

Unless there's a performance advantage, it would seem easier to just move the camera forwards (through the windshield, away from the pilots) to get an unobstructed view.

If it helps, here's what i'm looking for: camera only MSFS views, which means no cockpit, no landing lights, no external model at all. Just MSFS "world scenery" visuals, with no imprint of any kind from the aircraft I'm flying.

It sounds like this is possible, so that's good news. It would be lagniappe if there were also a performance advantage to such a minimalist approach. 
Will /Chicago /USA

Tércio Sampaio

  • Join date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 42
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 02:50 »
The performance for sure will be increased. take this example ONLY with msfs, on the same airport with exactly the same settings and weather condition, if i load the default steam gauges c172 i have +/- 30  fps,  if i load the default 747-8 i have 9 fps. So now you can imagine how i want the default 747 loaded…
Less cockpit and external model loaded less cpu stress.
Sadly all the solutions here is to change the default 747 files thats is also not much nice, because i also would like to use msfs for other purposes aside of psx only, also in that way it can be reverted everytime 747 default is updated.
So imho the best solution is the windshield view only separated aircraft, not only is default messy free and also more easy on cpu and only have what matters, with psx i not another cockpit on msfs and external view is also useless because to realism use is to fly inside nor from outside like youtubers 99% of the time shows msfs :D
« Last edit: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 04:04 by Tércio Sampaio »

kg

  • Join date: Sep 2020
  • Posts: 4
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:22 »
The main reason for the performance difference between the planes is not really the external model or the VC outlay for that matter, it is really the *gauges* that are the most processor hungry (after the scenery).  In fact go to the external view for a Cessna or the B747-8, my guess is that you will find there won't be that much of difference like the +/- 30 to 9 fps.  If you think 747-8 was bad .. I've heard nightmares about the 787.  That being said, I wish there was a way to completely remove the gauges from the default 747 .. i.e. make it a *dumb* model with dark holes in place of the gauges within the VC. 

For now the last patch allows you to turn down the refresh rate for the gauges which I've heard does improve fps. I just wish you could turn the refresh rate to 0 :( .. i.e. shut down the process altogether since PSX is doing the heavy lifting.

I personally, like the external model and the well made VC of MS FS 2020.  Granted it's a 747-8 and not a 744 .. it's still looks great.  If Microsoft could provide the ability to shut down the gauges and (seamlessly) add anti-icing, gear, flaps, radio (VATSIM) and lights via simconnect, with Wide PSX I'd be all set. 

JP59

  • Join date: Jan 2014
  • Location: France
  • Posts: 749
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:51 »
Hello Tércio,

Before i buy the WidePSX i still waiting for a community folder type of “aircraft” that is only camera view without any external and internal models and that not change or mess with msfs default contents. Like a windshield only view aircraft were the viewpoint is the same height of a 747 view and nothing more and it exist as a new/separated aircraft on msfs and not a substitute of an existing one.
The problem, until now all solutions shows in that links and sublinks are change the default aircraft/files of it, thats not pretty solution specially when msfs will sometimes update the default contents and or you also want to use the msfs out of psx experience.

As the WidePSX developer and seller you may think I am not objective, but I am also a user of the 3 softwares.

You can see the glass half empty or half full. For now the default 747-8 is the only solution we have. It may not be perfect, but it works. For me and a lot of users it gives satisfaction. You don’t have to tweak anything with the following : move your cockpit camera behind the windshield of the default MSFS 747-8, to get rid of the instruments, and save its position. This way you can still use the 747-8 in MSFS « alone ». When you want to use PSX, just press two keyboard keys to load your camera setting and you are ready to go. You can also reduce the refresh rate of the default MSFS screens in the graphics settings of the game (very bottom of the page) if you think it will improve your computer’s performance (on my system I don’t see a big difference).

Below are a screenshot and a video of my setup, with PSX at the bottom and MSFS in window mode above :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68TgU7d_y_A





I have absolutely zero competence in 3D modeling. However there is a fantastic community around WidePSX and I know some people are looking to provide a custom model for MSFS, which may satisfy everyone (absolutely no cockpit components, but eye candy external visuals). I will always be available to support those projects with my knowledge of the WidePSX side, for the interfacing implementation.

Best regards,
Jean-Philippe

kg

  • Join date: Sep 2020
  • Posts: 4
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 18:19 »
JP, quick question in the video link in your post above.  You were performing an Autoland 3 with an approach speed of 152 KTS +/-.  I noticed that the scenery moved by far quicker than I'd expect for a 152 KTS approach (i.e. the runway came up a lot faster).  Looking at standard MSFS 747-8 and A320 approaches around the same speed, the scenery moves a lot more gradually (and a bit slower).  Were you on some sort of 1.2x fast forward ? :)
Tx

JP59

  • Join date: Jan 2014
  • Location: France
  • Posts: 749
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 19:18 »
No fast forward. It is due to my zoom setting. Zoom out makes the scenery moving faster, zoom in does the reverse effect. It is a question of habit and personal preference.

Regards,
Jean-Philippe

GodAtum

  • Join date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 765
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 00:14 »
Dont forget if you remove the model you remove all the taxi, landing lights etc.

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2078
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:04 »
Does MSFS 2020 let you easily look to the left or the right? For example, in the video by Jean-Philippe, is it possible to shift the view so that you're not looking straight ahead in the MSFS world?
Will /Chicago /USA

JP59

  • Join date: Jan 2014
  • Location: France
  • Posts: 749
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 07:16 »
Hi Will,

You can move the pilot’s head by dragging the mouse while holding the right button. You can also save several camera positions and fire them with keyboard or even joystick shortcuts.

Best regards
Jean-Philippe

Does MSFS 2020 let you easily look to the left or the right? For example, in the video by Jean-Philippe, is it possible to shift the view so that you're not looking straight ahead in the MSFS world?

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 2078
Re: WidePSX and MSFS question: camera only?
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 17:06 »
Very good. I don't want MSFS for the out-the-cockpit view. I'd like to run it on a monitor that is lateral to the front cockpit, as if it were a passenger view instead of a pilot view. Sounds like MSFS will work for that. Thanks.
Will /Chicago /USA