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Author Topic: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi  (Read 357 times)

Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 1983
May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« on: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 02:42 »
AvHerald has an update on the May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi, PK-8303:
 
http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0
 
The crew was told to cross MAKLI on the inbound course (towards the runway) at 3000 feet, but they were distracted by an ongoing conversation about the coronavirus and ended up crossing MAKLI at 9780 feet(!) and 245 knots. Some pilots in this case would ask for vectors to redo the approach, or hold to lose altitude.

In fact, ATC asked them if they wanted to do those very things, either retry the approach or hold to lose altitude. Here is MAKLI:



The pilots chose to do neither of those things, and instead disconnected the autopilot, extended the gear and the speed brakes, and dove hard. They ended up intercepting the glideslope and then cleaned up the aircraft (retracted gear and speed brakes), but they were much too fast. They passed through 500 feet AGL at 200 kts, descending at 2000 fpm, with warnings blaring for overspeed, ground proximity, and landing gear configuration. The pilots flew through all of these and landed gear-up, dragging the engines on the runway for about a thousand feet before deciding to go around. On the go around, both engines caught fire and quit.
« Last edit: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 03:19 by Will »
Will /Chicago /USA

Avi

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: LLBG
  • Posts: 821
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 03:10 »
How did they succeed to takeoff again after running a thousand feet on their engines?
Avi Adin
LLBG

Roddez

  • Join date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Sydney
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    • http://www.simulatorsolutions.com.au
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 05:23 »
Given the recent news about PIA pilots and their qualifications...

Toga

  • Join date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 184
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 09:17 »
It’s a real shame this ended in tragedy. It would have been something to hear the pilots explanation of events.

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

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  • Location: KTMB
  • Posts: 3917
  • Hoppie designs avionics equipment for airliners.
    • http://www.hoppie.nl/
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 12:37 »
How did they succeed to takeoff again after running a thousand feet on their engines?

They didn't crash on the runway. They landed on it, on the engine cowls, probably not even hard. And only then realized the gears weren't down, and went around.

The engines still worked. Allegedly they damaged the undersides sufficiently to break the oil reservoirs. Both engines lost all oil and failed a few minutes later. There are good photos of the plane in flight with clear skid marks on both engine cowls... this unfortunately isn't lore, it's fact.


Hoppie

http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a


Will

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Chicago
  • Posts: 1983
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 03:50 »
I think there has to be a cultural component to this, and I am not talking about an element of Pakistani culture, but the culture within the airline and its training environment. These cultural elements include total deference to the Captain, while the Captain himself has an attitude of "If I want to do it, then I can do it," no matter what regulations, performance tables, Air Traffic Control directives, or onboard computers suggest. (Within this mindset, these pilots would hear the "whoop whoop, pull up" command and think it only applies to lesser pilots than themselves.)

We see that same culture in the sad case of Lieutenant Col. Arthur "Bud" Holland, who seemed to have a magical understanding of the B-52... He seemed to think that if he personally felt a maneuver was safe, then he could accomplish it, performance tables and expert data be damned. And he flew in a culture where experienced, more cautious pilots didn't feel they were able to challenge him.

What's horrifying is that airlines in the 21st century aren't successful at stamping out this mentality.
Will /Chicago /USA

G-CIVA

  • Join date: Dec 2009
  • Location: Adelaide, South Australia
  • Posts: 556
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 08:00 »
EASA gives PIA Notice ...

https://youtu.be/G62sSwC4t_g
Steve Bell
aka The CC

Britjet

  • Join date: Aug 2014
  • Location: Camberley, UK
  • Posts: 1514
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 17:42 »
So, from the 1st July - their license to operate into the EU is suspended.
Unbelievable really..but deserved..

Ton van Bochove

  • Join date: Jun 2009
  • Location: EHAM/EHBK
  • Posts: 184
Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:22 »
Quote
Last year, the carrier sacked 350 employees, including pilots and air hostesses, for having faked their educational qualifications.

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/pakistans-national-carrier-pia-may-be-banned-from-many-international-airports-over-payment-issues/articleshow/48177028.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

From an article in 2015
Ton

vnangli

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Re: May 22 Airbus crash in Karachi
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:39 »
I think there has to be a cultural component to this, .....

I will only speak about the cultural component part as I was raised in a very very comparable society...You will notice that the people from the Subcontinent struggle to say NO when one has to say NO. It becomes even more difficult if NO has to be said/told to someone elder or who holds a higher/responsibility role....
Everytime I see a 747, it makes me think how can this thing even move....Few minutes later, I see it flying...