NG Feature Request

[Mariano]

Hardy,

Putting a very long-shot request out there ;-)

Would you consider some day adding an override feature to the ground station so we could override the PSX-calculated takeoff uplink values before sending to the aircraft?

I was thinking that after sending the TAKEOFF REF request from the flight deck, we could then go to the Dispatcher (or another) tab and see what the PSX "Dispatch Office" will be sending to the FMC. We could then, if needed, edit the values in each field before sending.

In this manner, we would be able to uplink very accurate numbers to tailor to specific runway, stopway, clearway, obstacle clearance, terrain clearance, second segment, payload, etc. combinations that we obtain from real-world sources.

Basically, we could use PSX's automatic numbers or override them in special occasions when needed.

Thank you and best regards,

Mariano

[Hardy Heinlin]

I will consider.

[Mariano]

Thank you:-)

Best regards,

Mariano

[Hardy Heinlin]

For reference, the uplink data can easily be overwritten by add-ons as well:

PERF INIT UPLINK:
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5724.0

TAKEOFF REF UPLINK:
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5725.0

[Mariano]

Thanks, Hardy.

Hopefully someone will be kind enough to create a clean and simple PERF INIT and TAKEOFF REF uplink-manipulating interface.

I would be very grateful (and willing to assist in any way).

Best regards,

Mariano

[Hardy Heinlin]

Mariano, Kurt, and all:

Does your real-world dispatch always uplink all uplinkable parameters? Or are some of them boxed (dashed) when an uplink is pending.

E.g. for the PERF INIT do they uplink the fuel temp (small font) or will that parameter remain dashed?


Regards,

|-|ardy

[Mariano]

Hardy,

Our company does not use these FMC-uplink features (PERF INIT and TAKEOFF REF - the prompts are there in our 767-300 fleet).

We only get takeoff and landing performance data via ACARS using a vendor. I wish I could help you.

I really do enjoy this NG feature; always happy to see some focus in this area :-)

Best regards,

Mariano

[Gary Oliver]

Mariano,

I was thinking about looking into this for BACARS but as BA do not use this feature either I didn't look any further into it.

Does any -400 operator actually use this feature?

Cheers
G

[Hardy Heinlin]

UPS perhaps.

[Mariano]

Gary,

I was thinking (since you have experience developing PSX add-ons) that if, for a fee, you might perhaps develop a quick add-on that would let us edit every possible TAKEOFF REF and PERF INIT field before sending to PSX (for the ocasional scenarios that might require tinkering with the numbers).

Thanks and best regards,

Mariano

[Gary Oliver]

Mariano,

Would never charge for anything in the PSX community.  Its more time rather than anything else.

I shall have a quick look tomorrow morning as I have a few spare hours.

Cheers
G

[Hardy Heinlin]

I'm considering making an extra control panel for this. That's why I asked whether the fuel freeze temp is another uplink parameter (optional).


|-|ardy

[Mariano]

Thank you both! Excellent news :-)

Hardy/Gary, if there is anything I can contribute (which, sadly, I doubt), please let me know.

Best regards,

Mariano

[DougSnow]

I'm considering making an extra control panel for this. That's why I asked whether the fuel freeze temp is another uplink parameter (optional).


|-|ardy

Its not an uplink parameter. After dispatch I can ACARS the crew the fuel freeze temp and they can go into the box and set it, but it isn't an uplink like takeoff data or the flight plan routing...

[Mariano]

I assume ACARS is also how you communicate the need for a PACKS OFF/APU-TO-PACK takeoff, since there is no such vehicle in the TAKEOFF REF uplink feature?

Best regards,

Mariano

[Britjet]

The fuel freeze temp is an interesting one. As we know there are two basic figures; -47C and -40C.
The -40C figure is predominant in North America. Elsewhere it tends to be -47C.
This is fine as long as you don't mix the two. As soon as you mix the uplifts by, say, refuelling with -40 fuel on top of a residual of -47, the overall freeze temp will change to something in between the two, and is impossible to accurately predict.
However the aircraft "fluid replenishment manual" gives tables that enable crews to make an educated guess based on the amount of fuel in tanks of -40C fuel before refuelling with -47C fuel. It was largely academic but did give some leverage on long, cold sectors such as Siberian routes.
As far as I recall there was some sort of notification to crew if the aircraft had over a certain percentage of -40C fuel before embarking on a long-range cold-air sector. I can't remember the details now but I'm sure our current dispatchers or pilots will know..
Peter

[dhob]

We just enabled the FMC takeoff performance uplink a month ago for both the 747-8 and 747-400 w/NGFMC. Had to wait for BP 4.0 software update due to issue with 747-8 flap setting not populated in ECL.

For the PERF INIT page, the only value uplinked is the ZFW. The default FUEL FRZ TEMP is -37C. We manually enter -40C unless the flight plan is annotated with a lower value. Boeing via Air Canada derived fuel freeze blend temp tables, which we use if there is a mix of Jet 1 and Jet 1A.

For the TAKEOFF REF UPLINK, all fields must be populated on page 1 and 2 for the uplink to work.

[Britjet]

Dhob...
IMHO that's a strange SOP - the reason for leaving the default -37C temperature in the FMC is that the Boeing recommendation is to let the fuel temperature get no lower than than the actual fuel freeze point plus 3 degrees.
That's why the default is -37 - because they assume worst case of -40C fuel.
What you enter decides when the FUEL LOW TEMP EICAS will appear, and you can then hopefully do something about it, like descend, fly faster etc, as you will know.
If you set the actual fuel freeze point you won't get the EICAS message until your fuel is already at the freeze point, (assuming -40C fuel), so it's too late.
I think the purpose of the changeable FMC entry is to allow you to alter it for -47C fuel or whatever you have?
Peter

[turbodiddley]

As far as fuel temperature, we manually enter whatever value is passed to us in our flight plan dispatch paperwork. Has to with mixing as Peter pointed out. Default is -37, we overide it with -40 on most days, and occasionally see -41 or -43. Not a huge deal, but it is a feature we manipulate on every preflight and Make the numbers " big".

We manually request our performance data via a LSK link in ACARS. When received, data automatically uplinks to PERF and T/O REF pages, where we ACCEPT or REJECT. If we change parameters because of a loading change, more fuel, MEL item, etc, then we request new data via ACARS, and then we go through the steps again. We cannot request Perf or Takeoff data directly from the Perf or T/O pages. 

[Mariano]

For those who are using this feature in real world operations, how does your company handle a PACKS OFF takeoff? Do they send you a separate ACARS message as they uplink TAKEOFF REF parameters?

Best regards,

Mariano