Main and nose gear noise

[RogerH]

Hi all, here's one for you actual 747 pilots (and I guess any other airliners),

In the cockpit, can you hear the main and nose gear tyres screech when they touch down on landing?

I remember reading a book (Down to a Sunless Sea - can't remember the author - about nuclear war starting when this 747 is halfway across the Atlantic) where the main protagonist (747 pilot) describes the "distant keek-keek" of the main gear touching.

Many addon aircraft in different sims have tyre noise on touchdown, but PSX doesn't.

Hardy Is usually very accurate in his realisation of the 744, so my first guess is that the flight crew cannot hear the screech.

But I thought I'd ask anyway!

Cheers all,

Roger

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

Many reports state that the first, and often only, indication of touchdown is the click-GEEEEEEEEEEE sound of the gear lever solenoid and the speedbrake lever servo. There is so much material and distance between the main gears and the flight deck on the Queen.


Hoppie

[RogerH]

Thanks Hoppie. I wondered as much. I use the actuation of the speed brake lever as my indication that the main gear is down, but the romantic in me likes the idea of the tyre screech... just like in the movies...

[Will]

Main tires chirping at they touch, audible in the cockpit, is the MSFS simulator equivalent of the fact that in movies, the visuals of faraway lightning and explosions are always perfectly synchronized with their sounds.

It's a little bit of unreality that makes the experience feel more "real."

[RogerH]

Hi Will,

Do you know, I'd never made the connection about the explosions. As soon as you mention it, it becomes so obvious I wonder why it never occurred to me before, lol!

No "distant keek-keek" then. Must admit I'm a bit disappointed... realism vs. romanticism - hm, tricky ;-P

[emerydc8]

The packs will drown out any screeching noise of the tires touching down. If you get lucky and make a really smooth landing where you're not sure whether you've touched down yet (it doesn't happen as often as you think), then the sound of the spoiler motor deploying will be your first indication. Most times, though, you will know by the thud of the tires hitting the runway and transmitting that impact throughout the rest of the airframe. For whatever reason, it is much harder to make a smooth landing when light. Maybe it has something to do with less flexing of the wing so less shock-absorbing capabilities.

[Will]

RogerH,

One particularly egregious example of the "instant sound" effect is in Spielberg's film Saving Private Ryan. I mention this movie because it's otherwise so realistic, with attention to detail in setting, props, and cinematography -- Spielberg pulled out every trick to make the beach landing scene as utterly realistic as possible. Then, in a scene much later in the film when the action is at a lull and the characters are contemplative, there's a portion where the squad marches out in the dark of night to continue their mission. Far off in the distance, flashes illuminate the overcast from below as the fighting continues. But Spielberg matches the flash from these bombs precisely with the light as they detonate, despite being miles away. So much for realism!

In his defense, silent explosions with sounds occurring 5 seconds later may be misunderstood by a cinema audience, since they might not know where the sounds were coming from. I don't know. Once you start noticing it, it's hard to un-notice!

[Hardy Heinlin]

... may be misunderstood by a cinema audience ...

Another cinematic rule you will notice in every film: When the phone or door bell rings, the actors will turn their heads towards the location of the bell and wait a second. In real life you wouldn't turn your head because you're familiar with the bell sound and you know where it's located. You will just stop your current activity and walk towards the phone or door. The cinema audience, however, doesn't know where the bell is and whether the sound has a meaning at all, so the actors indicate the bell location by their faces :-)


{-{ardy

[RogerH]

Ok guys stop already with the film stuff! I'll never be able to go to the cinema again!

[Britjet]

I don't recall ever hearing tyres on any of my touchdowns...:-)
A few galley carts getting dislodged maybe, or occasionally an overhead bin emptying. Those O2 masks are quite noisy when they drop, and...the screams...
Peter

[RogerH]

and...the screams...

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers"... Boom-boom!

[emerydc8]

Those O2 masks are quite noisy when they drop

I think they deduct points for that now.

[Paul Mooney]

I often wish that PSX had some audio or visual equivalent of what emerydc8 above calls "the thud of the tires hitting the runway and transmitting that impact throughout the rest of the airframe". It  does detract a little from the satisfaction of making a smooth touchdown that you only find out about it later from the Analysis tab. A "thud" sound effect of varying intensity, and perhaps some of the rattling you hear in turbulence, would do the trick. It might not be realistic in the strictest sense, in that a RW pilot feels the thud rather than hears it, but it might be a reasonable translation of the effect for the desktop pilot. Perhaps it could be included as an option?
But the rest of PSX's sound world is so excellent that I presume Hardy has ruled this out for good reason.

[Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers]

When doing early WorldFlight in a fixed based sim, we typically filmed landings by standing behind the crew with a handycam thing. Later, we used a rear-wall-mounted webcam. In both cases, it struck us that the moment of touchdown felt unrealistic. So we did something extremely simple: at the moment of touchdown, we simply banged our fist once against the rear wall. The light shudder of the camera image provided just enough clue that when the crew watched back a bit later, they were astounded and confused looked at each other "Where did THAT come from?!"

So it may actually be a matter of moving the complete display 2 mm up and down a few times.

Hoppie

PS. I also remember that in Sydney, under the then still not moving sim, we once gathered with a few people and broom sticks when the NOTAMs of the destination mentioned "runway improvements in progress". On landing and rollout, the crew got a real startle!  :-)

[Hardy Heinlin]

I often wish that PSX had some audio or visual equivalent of what emerydc8 above calls "the thud of the tires hitting the runway ...

That thud sound is already included in PSX. If you've never heard it your landings are all smooth, or your speakers can't produce low frequencies.

The volume of that thud sound is dynamic and depends on the main gear sinkrate upon touchdown.

A second thud sound may occur when the nose gear lands. It's dynamic as well. A metallic clack noise will also occur when the nose gear landing is very hard. I have recorded these sounds in the big 744 sims.


|-|ardy

[RogerH]

Hi Hardy,

I assume the thud sound is in the Audio/Basics folder but i can't for the life of me find it - I've found ngfirst.wav etc. for the nose gear but nothing that sounds like main?

Cheers,

Roger.

[Hardy Heinlin]

For the main gear PSX also plays "ngSoft" but at a lower playback rate than the rate you hear when you click the file in an external player.


|-|ardy

[RogerH]

Clever!

[Paul Mooney]

That thud sound is already included in PSX. If you've never heard it your landings are all smooth, or your speakers can't produce low frequencies.

Oh I see! Thanks Hardy. How I'd love to say I have a pair of Bang and Olufsen Beolab 20s, so my landings must all be perfect, but I only have some 30 year old cheap and nasty things that came with my first pc so I guess they've been hiding the dreadful thump that has accompanied most of my landings!

I sometimes use quite decent headphones though, and I don't think I've ever heard it. The nosewheel sound I hear often.

Would you advise editing the relevant sound file to make it louder?

[RogerH]

Just for sh*ts and giggles, I added a tyre screech to the ngxxxx.wav files. I can distinctly hear it when the nose gear touches at any kind of rate, but nothing from the main gear.

I have to say it sounds really weird and I'll be removing it, but still interesting that I can't hear it from the mains. I'll try a very heavy landing just to be sure.

I have a fairly decent pair of speaker which I use to record music, so lower frequencies are generally good.

For me, a more positive aural confirmation of main gear touch down would be desirable - but not essential - although since the main and nose gear share ngSoft.wav it's difficult to see how the one might be achieved while not affecting the other.

Big thanks to Hardy for listening to our ramblings and contributing positively!

Edit. Obviously I don't _record_ the music with the speakers... just listen to what I've recorded! Just in case anyone fancied ragging me...