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INTC-CRS-FROM (767, 777, 748, 744 NG)

Started by Hardy Heinlin, Thu, 29 Aug 2019 20:30

Hardy Heinlin

Good evening,

for those who have Bill Bulfer's FMC Guide ...

On page 162, he suggests to enter EKR210 at line 2L.

Shouldn't this be at line 1L?

"EKR210" will create an anchor at EKR anyway. You need no second EKR after the existing EKR in 1L.

Also, if it were possible to insert an INTC-CRS-FROM a waypoint in any leg beyond the active, you could create multiple legs of that type within the same MOD RTE. But there is only one "INTC CRS FROM" entry field in 6R which can refer to just one INTC-CRS-FROM leg within the MOD RTE. How could you tell which leg the 6R value referred to? I guess it can be just one, and it has to be in 1L.

I've seen a CBT that demonstrates this function, and in that demo they used 1L.

Or, maybe it only works at 2L because the same fix is in 1L. It it were a different fix, the entry in 2L might be invalid.


Regards,

|-|ardy

emerydc8

Hi Hardy,

On the 767 this method of entering an outbound radial seems to work only on certain sims. The United 767 sim in Denver will do it, but I don't think the Boeing sim in MIA will (at least it didn't in early 2017). You still had to do it the old Legacy way and enter a radial and DME to create a waypoint (e.g., VOR210/25), then use 6R to insert the course.

I was scheduled to be in the Boeing sim in MIA next week, but all our sims there have cancelled due to the hurricane that is expected to hit. I go non-current on Sept. 1,  so my next flight will definitely be in a sim. Sorry I can't get to it sooner. I'll try to check this and your PROGS question too. Maybe Mariano can get to it before me.

Jon

Hardy Heinlin

Hi Jon,

thank you.

I guess on the 767 it only works in the 767 Pegasus software.


Regards,

|-|ardy

emerydc8

I'm not sure. I've never actually tried to do this in the real plane because we virtually never get a heading to intercept a radial outbound (or inbound for that matter), unless it's coded into a procedure. The only time we see it is in the sim. There seems to be a lot of minor nuances between simulators and aircraft when it comes to this kind of thing. There are also differences from aircraft-to-aircraft. For instance, some of our planes will not put the direct-to waypoint in 1L if you press HDG SEL when VECTORS is active in 1L. I'm pretty sure all of our 767s are Pegasus too.

Some of our aircraft will not display the wind direction in digital format and I'm pretty sure both aircraft below are Pegasus.




Hardy Heinlin

Maybe it's a matter of FMC option code then ... ($$$) ... and what code the previous aircraft owners purchased ...

emerydc8

You're probably right. I'd love to see the list of options.

Hardy Heinlin

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Thu, 29 Aug 2019 20:30
Also, if it were possible to insert an INTC-CRS-FROM a waypoint in any leg beyond the active, you could create multiple legs of that type within the same MOD RTE. But there is only one "INTC CRS FROM" entry field in 6R which can refer to just one INTC-CRS-FROM leg within the MOD RTE.

Perhaps it is allowed to enter an INTC-CRS-FROM in any leg, but then it's probably allowed just once. So the value in 6R can clearly refer to that single INTC-CRS-FROM in the route.

(A similar single permission exists for the entry of a destination runway in a route. Only one entry of this type is allowed within one route. So the trick wouldn't be new.)


|-|ardy

emerydc8

I vaguely remember entering it in 1L, just because I knew it doesn't work on all sims, so I didn't spend much time messing with it. I'll see if it will work in 2L, presuming I'm in a sim that will do it at all.

Jon

Hardy Heinlin

I think I understand now.

The Bulfer example is about a waypoint that already exists in the route. It makes no sense to duplicate it in front of itself with a bearing going away from itself and then returning to the same waypoint in the next leg. So Bulfer sets it after it, and that's just the course away from it. I guess if you were to enter it in 1L, the FMC would even force it into 2L automatically or even say "invalid entry".

The example I saw in another CBT was about an offroute fix.


|-|ardy

dhob

For the NG FMC (744 and 748), to intercept a course outbound as the active way-point, the way-point with outbound course is entered in 1L. For example, "fly heading 140, intercept XYZ VOR 090 radial outbound, expect further clearance", would be entered in FMC as XYZ090 in 1L. If currently on a course (LNAV engaged), and a vector is needed after a downtrack fix, then the outbound course can be entered on the legs page at the applicable line select key.

vnangli

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Tue,  3 Sep 2019 14:32
I think I understand now.

The Bulfer example is about a waypoint that already exists in the route. It makes no sense to duplicate it in front of itself with a bearing going away from itself and then returning to the same waypoint in the next leg. So Bulfer sets it after it, and that's just the course away from it. I guess if you were to enter it in 1L, the FMC would even force it into 2L automatically or even say "invalid entry".

The example I saw in another CBT was about an offroute fix.

|-|ardy

Sorry, I am reactivating an old thread...I am trying to get a better grasp on INTC CRS.

Here is a flight I was running to understand INTC CRS. In the first video below the INTC CRS (Intercept course) becomes when I want to fly directly to "A" waypoint in the legs page. However in the second video (courtesy Captain Al) , at 2:10 the INTC CRS isnt available...

My question, when would INTC CRS be applicable or available? Why was it available in one case and why not in another situation?

First video
https://youtu.be/h-1OyDu5y84

Second video (Source : Captain Al's channel)
https://youtu.be/GQ63_2bvqeI

747 is not an airplane, it is a symbol of inspiration....

Hardy Heinlin

INTC CRS is available when you enter a waypoint in the first leg. This first leg is called a "direct-to". A "direct-to" is always a leg from the aircraft to the active waypoint (first waypoint). The aircraft flies directly to a waypoint and not via other waypoints. If it were to fly via other waypoints, it wouldn't be "direct" but "via". As a direct-to is not a leg from a previous waypoint, the pilot can freely define an intercept course to it.

In the legacy FMC, the "INTC CRS" is always an "INTC CRS TO". The Aerowinx Operations Manual shows examples on page 392 and 393.

The NG FMC can make an "INTC CRS TO" and an "INTC CRS FROM". The Aerowinx NG Manual shows examples on page 47 and following pages.

http://aerowinx.com/downloads/AerowinxNgFmcManual.pdf


Regards,

|-|ardy


Captain Al is using PSX with the legacy FMC in that quoted video.

Captain_al

QuoteMy question, when would INTC CRS be applicable or available? Why was it available in one case and why not in another situation?

It is all a matter of whether you are modifying the Active WPT at L1 or any Down Track Waypoint. When you modify the active waypoint (L1 on Page 1), you will always have an INTC CRS (Legacy). It will either have Boxes if there is no previous course into that waypoint, as in you are adding a waypoint not on your current route, or it will have the previous course into the waypoint if it is a waypoint on your current route and the course will be in small font, meaning it is not selected. If you want it, you have to make it big by selecting the > prompt at R6, or change it to what is required by ATC requirements.

As Hardy said, in the Legacy, it is always an INTC CRS (TO), never FROM. The only way you can track a radial outbound in LNAV is to create a PB/Distance, as shown in the video. If you modify any waypoint other than the active waypoint, then there is not an INTC CRS since you are either bypassing waypoints or adding a waypoint not on your route, but the main point is you are not changing the active waypoint. The first case would not give you a Route Discontinuity (bypass waypoints), the second case (new waypoint not on your route) would give you a Route Discontinuity.

In the NG FMC, which I used the PMDG 747-8 since I do not have the PSX NG yet, you will notice that it adds the word TO or FROM after the INTC CRS depending on how you make the modification as I described in the video...

cagarini

Captain_al,

I seriously recommend you track "al's" youtube's - you can learn from it :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ63_2bvqeI

emerydc8

Hi Hardy,

This is a bit different than your original question because the VOR I enter isn't along our route of flight, but still it will  only take it in 1L of the active leg. I can't remember whether you can even do this on the 744 legacy, but on the 767 Pegasus you can enter a VOR and a radial in 1L and it will display it. Try it in 2L and it says INVALID ENTRY.
Jon

https://youtu.be/p8IGdsf654U


Hardy Heinlin

Thanks, Jon. This agrees with PSX and other CBTs.

(You can't do this in the 744 legacy.)


|-|ardy

Jason M Tutwiler

I want that book so bad!  I'm sorry. 
Jason M. Tutwiler