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News: Precision Simulator update 10.85 (23 July 2019) is now available

Author Topic: ETOPS usage in the 747  (Read 640 times)

GodAtum

  • Join date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 631
ETOPS usage in the 747
« on: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:26 »
Hi all, how would I go about using ETOPS in the 747, as I believe that's required now? I think I need to enter the ETP in the fix page etc?

Mariano

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Posts: 592
Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:43 »
GodAtum,

The fix pages do not accept coordinates, which is how your ETP(s) will be displayed in the OFP.

What you can do is go to the end of your active route and enter a throwaway fix (I enter my home airport). Next, below your throwaway fix, enter the ETP coordinates in standard format. Then, just delete your throwaway fix and LEAVE the route discontinuity boxes displayed.

Your ETP will show as a white fix in the ND, but you will not get ETA or estimated fuel overhead figures for it. It’s good for situational awareness.

We also always enter the ETOPS entry and exit coordinates in a similar manner, as these are quite important (especially the entry one).

Best regards,

Mariano


Mariano

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Posts: 592
Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:53 »
Some OFPs additionally present the ETP as a normal route waypoint minus a distance. You could enter this in the route a lot easier and get ETA and fuel predictions for it, but it is not recommended if there is any chance that you will be in ADS-C airspace.

Best regards,

Mariano

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

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  • Hoppie designs avionics equipment for airliners.
    • http://www.hoppie.nl/
Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:27 »
Hi all, how would I go about using ETOPS in the 747, as I believe that's required now? I think I need to enter the ETP in the fix page etc?

As far as I know, 747 ETOPS is only required for aircraft built after 2015 flying over 180 minutes from land and only approved for the 747-8 up until 330 minutes. Smaller circles still don't require ETOPS on more-than-two-engine aircraft.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2015-03-18-Boeing-747-8-Intercontinental-Receives-FAA-Approval-for-330-Minute-ETOPS


Hoppie

DougSnow

  • Join date: Jun 2009
  • Location: KMEM
  • Posts: 179
Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:19 »
When US operators still had the 747 (thinking DL and UA), they just kept the aircraft within 180 minutes of an adequate airport (which covered their routes just fine), and thus at least in the US, no one that I am aware of has held the 3-4 engine passenger ETOPS OpSpec.

United744

  • Join date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 765
Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 03:31 »
Does that only apply to newer quads (-8) or retrospectively to the -400 as well?

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

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  • Hoppie designs avionics equipment for airliners.
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Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:04 »
I think the -400 simply cannot get the 330 minutes ETOPS. And for up to 180 you don't need any on a quad. So nobody bothers.


Hoppie

United744

  • Join date: Oct 2014
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Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:23 »
I think the -400 simply cannot get the 330 minutes ETOPS. And for up to 180 you don't need any on a quad. So nobody bothers.


Hoppie

Interesting. I thought it just had to prove reliability vs. time to qualify. I guess not.

John H Watson

  • Join date: May 2010
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  • Posts: 1986
Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 02:59 »
Quote
I thought it just had to prove reliability vs. time to qualify. I guess not.

One of the biggest issues is fire suppression time, not engine reliability. The 744 ER has additional fire bottles. Maybe they ran out of room for bottles?

DougSnow

  • Join date: Jun 2009
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Re: ETOPS usage in the 747
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 13:53 »
I'm in MyBoeingFleet right now and Quad ETOPS type design approvals (and the requirements for a CMP) and are not required for aircraft manufactured before Feb of 2015.

For the 748 there is a CMP. The max time limited system capability for other than lower cargo fire detection is 345 minutes. Depending on installed options for the lower deck cargo compartments you get either 195 or 260 minutes of max time limited system capability for cargo fire detection. That means either a max time limited system capability of either 180 minutes or 245 minutes of max diversion time.  However, the 245 minutes of max diversion time is flown at barber pole airspeed - the belief in the regs is if you have an active cargo fire detection warning, you'll fly at the clacker to get somewhere hoping to all that you don't become another UPS6.