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News: Precision Simulator update 10.73 (22 MAR 2019) is now available

Author Topic: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC  (Read 669 times)

G-CIVA

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Hardy,

I fly in/out of PANC/ANC Intl in PSX on a very regular basis.  When arriving from the N to RWY 15 or departing from RWY 33 I notice that the surface & local WX conditions change rapidly from up to 15-20 NM out.  Having watched the Situation>Weather>Local zones on one of my PSX instances I have watched the active WX zone switch from some nearby ARPTS - finally loading up the PANC/ANC WX only at a couple of NM out on short finals.

The actual WX PSX encounters during this period changes rapidly & differs dramatically from the PANC TAF/METAR.

Is there any chance you could have a look at this during the update cycle?

Cheers!
Steve Bell
aka The CC

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:08 »
If the downloaded METAR of the nearest zone is outdated, all you can do is turn it off manually. If you will land within the next 30 minutes, you need no further downloads anyway.

I can't change it. If I always exclude this station, you may miss important local real-time weather effects at other times.


|-|ardy

G-CIVA

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:48 »
Ok perhaps what I am saying is being lost in translation ...

Here is the plan view of the approach plate with my position on it as I was flying it ...



Here are the local ARPT WX conditions that were directly influencing the WX during that approach, I make reference to them in relation to the above image, you will see I actually only got PANC weather only 2.9 DME out on the ILS, with the DME at the far end of a 10963ft RWY - is that in anyway realistic?

TED 20 DME ARC WX from PAWS

ILS 15  20NM FINAL WX from PALH

ILS 15  17NM FINAL WX from PAED

ILS 15  CARDD WX from PAED

ILS 15  09NM FINAL WX from PALH

ILS 15  2.9NM FINAL WX from PANC

So, to rephrase the question, can the WX from PALH & PAED & PAWS be suppressed in order to allow PANC weather to be constant in this area, if you fly an approach from this quadrant you will see how unrealistic & abrupt the change between stations is, especially the final one right before the PANC RWY15 threshold?  I am sure this has been asked for before in other areas.

Cheers.
Steve Bell
aka The CC

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:55 »
Quote
can the WX from PALH & PAED & PAWS be suppressed

Yes, deactivate the automatic setting and enter dashes "----" over PALH & PAED & PAWS.

Or go to PANC and click "To zones", so that all zones have a copy of the current PANC data.

G-CIVA

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:03 »
Is this a permanent 'thing' or something I have to do on the 'fly' every time I fly into PANC - bearing in mind the TAB for PANC did not even become available to see until I was on about a 10nm final?
Steve Bell
aka The CC

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:03 »
Just asking. Are these nearby stations reporting actually correct METARs, with a recent time and reasonable data?

If not a recent time, that can be filtered. But if the weather near Anchorage is that variable, ...

G-CIVA

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:43 »
The METARs from the stations I have described are somewhat silly.

PAWS is Wasilla ARPT with a 3700ft RWY

PALH is Lake Hood Sea Plane Base

PAED Elmendorf AB is just across the Sea Plane Base from Anchorage ARPT

Both PALH & PAED give very differing METAR to PANC, try flying these in METARs in succession with the final METAR change (PALH-PANC) pretty much happening at about .5NM from the threshold of RWY15 at PANC:

PAED



PALH



PANC



Steve Bell
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Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:14 »
They all look fine and are from the same UTC.

What exactly is the problem? Do you expect constant wind data along the entire approach? That's unrealistic.

Also, the only thing that changes fast from zone to zone are cloud objects.

But baro, wind, OAT, runway visibility change from zone to zone very, very, very slowly. Not abrupt at all. Baro is the slowest of all. Wind changes are less slow. Especially in mountainous areas like PANC you should expect some wind changes along the route. And here they are. Isn't it fantastic?

The values displayed are just target values. The actual values in the sim world drift very smoothly and slowly towards these target values.

G-CIVA

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:41 »
Okay,

I'll point it right out for you.

Lake Hood Sea Plane Base is positioned on the eastern perimeter of Anchorage Airport...less than 1200m from the threshold of PANC RWY 15.  The transition, I can assure from the conditions I show in the images & illustrate below is/was far from smooth otherwise I would not be telling you about it.  The head wind component increase & gust come from nowhere on very short finals.  I bet in reality they are in play further out

Wind at Lake Hood Sea Plane Base ..... 170/05

Wind over the RWY15 at Anchorage ..... 160/14G25

How can there be no gust at Lake Hood whilst it is reported at PANC?  Perhaps it is because the WX station at Lake Hood is at sea level & lies in the lee of the higher ground of the Anchorage Airport (elev 151ft amsl) to its immediate West?

I am not expecting smooth sailing all the way down far from it ... but I am also not expecting a ridiculous shift to the destination WX over the runway threshold.

The mountains are quite a hike away BTW off to the east.

Fantastic isn't it?



Steve Bell
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Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:09 »
OK, back to your previous question. My answer was:

Deactivate the automatic setting and enter dashes "----" over PALH & PAED & PAWS.

Or go to PANC and click "To zones", so that all zones have a copy of the current PANC data.

If PANC is not auto-entered already, enter it manually and click "Load from METAR", then click "To zones".

Yes, do this manually, please. PSX includes no artificial intelligence for local weather designs for each of the thousands of airports.

You can request D-ATIS for these airports prior to descend so you can see in advance whether you are happy with the current METAR combination.

cavaricooper

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:14 »
Hardy-

Could PSX automatically ignore all waterdrome METARs?

Maybe also all airports with runways shorter than database minimums?

In emergency situations the closest large airport METAR would suffice.

If not, is it possible to consider ability to lock DEST Wx at 20nm?

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:18 »
Not possible, sorry. The METARs are used to generate WX radar images. The radar sees everything, be it a short or a long runway.

G-CIVA

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:19 »
Hardy,

In response to your suggestion I asked this ...I did not receive clarification to the questions here & I am still unsure as to 'how' what you describe is done correctly.

Is this a permanent 'thing' or something I have to do on the 'fly' every time I fly into PANC - bearing in mind the TAB for PANC did not even become available to see until I was on about a 10nm final?

Regards
Steve Bell
aka The CC

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:22 »
Yes, permanent.

But I, personally, wouldn't do it. ATIS wind (windsock wind at xx UTC) and actual wind may differ in my world. Getting a late wind change at random is a nice feature, in my opinion. The METAR winds will not always differ that much as they do today.

G-CIVA

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:46 »
The METAR winds will not always differ that much as they do today.

The whole point of today's Q & A Hardy is that in the N quadrant approach into PANC this is an issue.  I fly in/out of here very often & it is always an issue.  I do not find this to be an issue pretty much anywhere else that PSX takes me, which is a rather extensive network of PSX ARPTs.

One final question.

If I make these permanent changes, with they remain in place with the 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs' check box ticked?
« Last edit: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:04 by G-CIVA »
Steve Bell
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cavaricooper

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:02 »
Not possible, sorry. The METARs are used to generate WX radar images. The radar sees everything, be it a short or a long runway.

Yes, but if it ignored runways shorter than 1400M long (like the database) and Waterdromes, wouldn't it just populate as it would in areas with airports further apart (area without immediate METAR that is smoothly transitioned next)?

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:11 »
Quote
If I make these permanent changes, with they remain in place with the 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs' check box ticked?

No.

The permanent change (permanent until flight completion) you need to do is this:

Deselect 'Set zones by flight track and downloaded METARs'.

Then ...

1. Enter PANC in any of the 7 zones (if isn't entered already).
2. On the PANC zone page click "Load from METAR" and wait until the data is loaded.
3. On the PANC zone page click "To zones".

Now all 7 zones refer to PANC and have the latest PANC METAR. Only the data of the first PANC page will be applied to the simulated planet. The other PANC duplicates will not be used; their data will not be applied. Instead of making PANC duplicates you could also enter dashes "----" in the airport fields of the other 6 zone pages. That would also disable the other 6 pages.


|-|ardy

cavaricooper

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:14 »
With your new module/update, could that be done automatically at 20 or 25nm?  That would solve the issue of new METARs popping up on final at the destination, and CBs and W/S would already be noted.

C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:16 »
Not possible, sorry. The METARs are used to generate WX radar images. The radar sees everything, be it a short or a long runway.

Yes, but if it ignored runways shorter than 1400M long (like the database) and Waterdromes, wouldn't it just populate as it would in areas with airports further apart (area without immediate METAR that is smoothly transitioned next)?

C

Yes, but you would miss that real-life thunderstorm over that small airport if small airports were to be ignored in general.

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: WX Update Supression Around Achorage Intl Airport PANC
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:17 »
With your new module/update, could that be done automatically at 20 or 25nm?  That would solve the issue of new METARs popping up on final at the destination, and CBs and W/S would already be noted.

C

No, SIGMETs only inform about significant weather. A rain cloud is not necessarily significant. There are usually less than 70 SIGMETs world-wide at a time. That's not much.