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Author Topic: New Rudder Pedals  (Read 1934 times)

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
New Rudder Pedals
« on: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47 »
Has anyone had any experience with this brand? The 8" of travel is definitely a selling point. The real aircraft has 8.4".

Jon.

http://www.flightlink.com/base-page/jet-rudder-control-module




garys

  • Join date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 57
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 23:02 »
Im not sure how up to date the flight link company is. I remember these rudder pedals when they were released over 10 years ago now.  I also see they are still advertising the epic interface system which I believe doesn't work with operating systems later than windows XP. I could be wrong of course, but I would definately try contacting them before making a solid decision.

Hardy Heinlin

  • Moderator
  • Join date: May 2009
  • Posts: 10482
    • Aerowinx
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 23:50 »
I got the same impression. On their website there is a list of retailer addresses, and the Simware and Intercraft addresses displayed are several years old and no longer valid.

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 00:22 »
I received a reply back within hours and they forwarded my inquiries to someone in the company who could answer my questions. They said they still sell the rudders. Awaiting a reply. Based on the 8" throw, these would actually be better than the FDS rudders for about half the price. One of the most useful features of PSX is its ability to simulate a real engine out at V1, unlike any other program I have seen. The problem is that most of the rudders available have a short throw and they don't come anywhere near simulating what a real V1 cut is like. In the real sim, when you have 4" of rudder in and you move it 1/4" either way, you will see a significant change in yaw, roll and pitch. This one maneuver is probably responsible for more than half the busts on the -400 at my company. If you hit a pod, go off the side of the runway, or crash, your ride is over.  And the V1 cut is almost always done with a 15-knot crosswind from the side of the failed engine, 500RVR, max landing weight, and max thrust (no de-rates).
« Last edit: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 00:36 by emerydc8 »

Britjet

  • Join date: Aug 2014
  • Location: Camberley, UK
  • Posts: 1331
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:07 »
If you hit a pod, go off the side of the runway, or crash, your ride is over.  And the V1 cut is almost always done with a 15-knot crosswind from the side of the failed engine, 500RVR, max landing weight, and max thrust (no de-rates).

In Europe you will not be surprised to learn, Jon, that we take a more pragmatic approach. Cat 1 conditions with a defined cloudbase, usually 250 tonnes on 747, derated thrust and a realistic wind, without making it difficult. 15kts would be considered “unfair”.
I fail to see how they could deliberately give you a wind from the side of the failed engine - that would be like telling you which engine was going to fail!
‘Ride is over” is not a phrase that we would be familiar with. In my experience maybe 10% would have genuine difficulty with handling the engine fail - these pilots would be given further training (which would usually be in the same sim detail). Then a second attempt was allowed, and only if they failed this time, was the item recorded as a fail.

Peter.

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 20:01 »
On the V1 cut, if you are astute enough to recognize the combination of conditions, at least you know what to expect. It's been a while since I was on the -400 so maybe they're mixing it up now. I don't know why, but our -400 sim has a pretty violent engine failure characteristic. There's a violent pop, the airplane yaws and it's as if the engine is going from full forward thrust to reverse instantaneously. Under the conditions described above (full power, crosswind, fairly light), it initially takes full rudder to keep it on the runway centerline. When I say the "ride is over," I mean the ride is over for the day (you get pink-slipped) and then the company will decide whether to give you additional training before you try it again.

I think our training department prides itself on having the highest OPT (Optimized Proficiency Training) rate in the industry. I've heard it's close to 20%, but they won't give the union the figures. So, anyone who gets an overall unsat on any validation, or needs 50% more training at any phase, gets invited back to sim every 6 months instead of every year. Once in the OPT program, they warn the first officers not to even think about upgrading because the chances of making it through are really slim-to-none and you might very well find yourself without a job afterwards.

Dirk Schepmann

  • Join date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 102
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 00:27 »
Hi Jon,

If you still haven‘t made your decision, I can recommend the pedals from MFG:
https://mfg.simundza.com/products

It’s a small company and the shipment might take a while (up to 4 months!), but the pedals are of very high quality. The pedals work with a different technique than potentiometers which means that there are no spikes or other artifacts in the sim. The pedals also have a quite long travel distance. Don‘t know if it’s more or lese than 8“, but you have to push quite hard and move them considerably for full deflection.

Support is excellent and the pedals work fine in PSX.

Best regards,
Dirk

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:01 »
Thanks, Dirk. I haven't received a reply to my questions from Flightlink other than to send them money if I want to place an order, so I can't imagine what their support would be like. I worked out a deal with one of the forum members here for a home-made set that has the throw I am looking for. The PFC rudder throw is woefully inadequate and unrealistic, plus, I am tired of buying a set of springs every time I snap one. The rudders in the link look of high quality but it doesn't look like they have that much throw and they can't be adjusted vertically more than 62 degrees?

Jon

Walter Kranl

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Location: Vienna
  • Posts: 126
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:53 »
I also have the MFG pedals and confirm the high quality. They are adjustable in many ways.

Walter

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:52 »
They look really nice. Have you measured the throw on the rudders?

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:54 »
I measured the throw on the 767 rudders and it is right at 4.75" or 9.5" total from stop-to-stop. They look to be about 15-degrees from vertical. Based on the wear areas, it is evident that most braking is done with the balls of the feet on the top edges of the pedals and the heels on the bottom of the pedals. Most rudder input is done with the balls of the feet at the bottom of the pedals and heels on the floor. Having gone under there now to check it out, maybe I need to scuff up my new pedals so they have that 70,000-hour look. :)



Jon

richjb

  • Join date: May 2009
  • Posts: 30
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 18:01 »
Has anyone had any experience with this brand? The 8" of travel is definitely a selling point. The real aircraft has 8.4".

Jon.

http://www.flightlink.com/base-page/jet-rudder-control-module



As usual, I'm coming late to the discussion.  I have also been eyeing these rudder pedals for a quite a long time.  When I spoke to them in the mid-2000's, they said that the design was per a Boeing order & spec. for use their engineering and training devices.  At the time, my budget would not allow such a large expenditure.

Instead, in 2005 I purchased the Flight Link's rudder control module:

http://www.flightlink.com/base-page/rcm/

I've been quite pleased by its performance and ruggedness.  In the 14 years I have had it, I had send it in only once for what was basically routine maintenance for replacement of the seals on the gas tubes.  These rudders were purchased by the USN for use in their undergraduate pilot training desktop simulators at NAS Corpus Christi.  There were also used in the simulators at the old the A.C.E.S Flight Simulator Store in the Mall of America, where they were subjected to daily "abuse" testing. 

I have noticed that Flight Link has gotten quiet recently, with very little new products coming out.  I have had some interest in the new Thrustmaster rudders:

http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_UK/products/tpr-thrustmaster-pendular-rudder

but not quite sure about them.

Flight Link was very good with the RCM that I have, and I would not hesitate to purchase from them again

Rich Boll
Wichita, KS

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 09:57 »
I had forgotten about these for six months. Maybe it's time to pull the trigger on getting a set. Thanks for the review, Rich. Has anyone purchased anything from this company in the recent past? I'm not sure if the company is even in business today.

Jon

ahaka

  • Join date: May 2010
  • Location: EFHK
  • Posts: 126
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 14:18 »
I have also been looking for a realistic rudder, as well as a yoke to be used with PSX. I have emailed FlightLink a few years back and never got a reply, so I am not too keen on sending money to them. I have also not found any other pedals that would offer such a realistic travel, unfortunately. My current pedals from OpenCockpits have approximately 5.5inch travel. Being made of steel and the relatively strong spring force compenstates a little bit for the lack of travel, though.

The thrustmaster pedals seem like a set of typical gaming pedals: very short travel and not much feel to them.
Antti

emerydc8

  • Join date: Jun 2015
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
  • Posts: 1734
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 06:32 »
I emailed them back in October 2018 asking some questions about the product, like how their rudders would interface with a PFC yoke. Their reply:

Quote
Our current lead time is 4-6 weeks. We build everything to order. Please let me know if you would like to place an order.

With a non-responsive reply like this, I'm not willing to send off money until I know more about the company and the product. I learned my lesson with the ThrottleTek.

ahaka

  • Join date: May 2010
  • Location: EFHK
  • Posts: 126
Re: New Rudder Pedals
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 08:16 »
Another sign that all may not be well with the company is that all the retail stores that used to sell their products seem to have removed them from their selections.

Antti