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Winds aloft injection -- just an idea ...

Started by Hardy Heinlin, Wed, 25 Jul 2018 06:35

Will

I've found the same thing (and said it before here) -- planning in PFPX based on real-world weather, and then flying with PSX weather, as long as you drag the jet stream into something that merely approximates the 300 Mb chart -- makes for very accurate flights. Variation between PSX and the PFPX prediction seems probably within the limits of the difference between actual dispatch weather and real-world flying, but of course that's just a guess on my part.
Will /Chicago /USA

double-alpha

From my A340 FCTM :

WIND AND TEMPERATURE When reaching cruise FL, the crew will ensure that the wind and temperatures are correctly entered and the lateral and vertical F-PLN reflect the CFP. Wind entries should be made at waypoints when there is a difference of either 30 ° or 30 kt for the wind data and 5 °C for temperature deviation. These entries should be made up to four different levels to reflect the actual wind and temperature profile. This will ensure that the FMS fuel and time predictions are as accurate as possible and provide an accurate OPT FL computation.

Hardy Heinlin

Good hint. Thanks. So the maximum allowable difference should exceed 030°, 30 kt, 5°C in order to allow such scenarios (when desired).

Dispatcher

Sorry for the question but I may missed something; will this new feature be autonomus, with no need to use FSX/P3D simulators, or PSX.NET,  FSX/P3D extra weather generator etc?
Thanks
M.C.
FAA Aircraft Dispatcher

Hardy Heinlin

If you want to sync it with add-on XY, you need add-on XY.

If you want to design your own corridor, you need no add-on.

Britjet

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:53
Good hint. Thanks. So the maximum allowable difference should exceed 030°, 30 kt, 5°C in order to allow such scenarios (when desired).

Just to be clear - I assume that what he is taking about here is a manual input of the wind data and when to do it. In practice it is done manually as described when the forecast wind or temp changes significantly, rather than for each leg.
Peter.

Hardy Heinlin


Gary Oliver

Hardy,

Chances of getting this in before world flight?

Our psx.net.weather module needs some fixes doing to it, shall we not bother and await your superior native version?

Cheers
Gary

Hardy Heinlin

Definetely not before world flight. Rather December or next year. Seriously.


Cheers,

|-|ardy

Britjet

Looks like it might be Wednesday, then...:-(

Hardy Heinlin

#110
I just realized there's a misunderstanding in this comment:

Quote from: G-CIVA on Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:13
Having looked at lots of real world OFPs & compared this data in real time to the out put data created by WX engines PSX users are using to inject WX into scenery generators I see the difference in the two is actually quite small ...

Understood. Although flight plan programs and FSX weather add-ons may download the same NOAA forecast data, both may apply that data slightly differently in their respective own code, leading to slight disagreements between flight plan programs and FSX weather add-ons.

But such disagreements won't affect the PSX side.

PSX won't get data from FSX weather add-ons.

PSX will get NOAA forecast data. Typically, this NOAA forecast data will be copied from a flight plan text. Not from an FSX weather add-on.

Using my new edit feature in PSX, a special wind & OAT data corridor can be designed (if desired) by editing data tables on a special text screen on the Instructor. The displayed data will be directly applied to the internal weather model using a corridor embedded in the planet weather model (if desired).

This means, the internal weather model will exactly agree with the data displayed on the screen -- as long as the "randomize" slider is set to "minimum". That's why the slider is important.

FSX weather add-ons may be used for visual weather effects in FSX.
They won't be required for data injections into PSX.


Regards,

|-|ardy


Off-topic question: When a random generated gust occurs in an FSX weather scenario at a networked VATSIM location, will this gust hit all VATSIM aircraft at that location at the same time? Or will each aircraft simulation use a different gust event randomization?

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58
Off-topic question: When a random generated gust occurs in an FSX weather scenario at a networked VATSIM location, will this gust hit all VATSIM aircraft at that location at the same time? Or will each aircraft simulation use a different gust event randomization?
The VATSIM system contains winds and yes, a gust is broadcasted over all aircraft. However, I doubt whether any VATSIM client nowadays does anything at all with these winds. I presume everybody just injects "real weather" which means METARs which means random gusts.

Hoppie
not having looked at VATSIM data streams for about 15 years...

G-CIVA

No misunderstanding at this end Hardy.

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58
Off-topic question: When a random generated gust occurs in an FSX weather scenario at a networked VATSIM location, will this gust hit all VATSIM aircraft at that location at the same time? Or will each aircraft simulation use a different gust event randomization?

Short answer - no.

The beauty of the PSX WX environment 'overriding' any FSX/p3D WX engine injection below 20000ft is that PSX properly interpolates turbulence & gust events from the WX source PSX downloads from whereas FSX/p3D WX engines often do not.

I always fly online & I can site countless occasions where I have seen 'MOD TURB BLW 5000' or 'MOD WS ALL RWYS' - in METAR reports, I have reported such back to online ATC after having experienced such events & have sometimes had to conduct missed approaches.

Those simmers flying FS products totally within the FSX/p3D environment at the same point in time & space as me did not experience or encounter such WX events using FSX/p3D WX engines, with VATSIM WX enabled or or if using 'native' FSX/p3D downloadable WX.
Steve Bell
aka The CC

Hardy Heinlin

Hi all,

this Cirrus sample is formatted for waypoint identifiers whose length don't exceed 5 characters:

N4138.5W07232.8 HFD   058    37     M18 19066 23074 25093 24110
N4157.3W07150.6 PUT   041    16     M42 19060 23067 25094 24105
                                         310   330   350   370
N4520.4W06744.3 TOPPS 037   614 350 M54 26119 26127 25134 26141
N5259.9W05720.6 STEAM 057   100 350 M52 27093 27090 27084 27074


What if a 7-character identifier like "N45W123" is to be printed? Will the whole list get 2 more character columns before the course column, or should 7-character identifiers be abbreviated to 5 characters?


Thanks,

|-|ardy

Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers

Caveat: I don't know any Cirrus requirements specs.

The usual way of handling this is to stupidly print more than 5 characters and screw the formatting. This kind of tables is technically space-delimited and not position -- else they would have placed the columns together. As long as  you maintain whitespace between the columns, parsers should be able to eat it.

The counterargument is the line with the four floating values. That's to screw up other people's lives. Looks like a header repeated halfway?

Hoppie

Hardy Heinlin

No problem for the parser. I'm just asking for aesthetical reasons :-) There's another Cirrus sample with space for 6 characters instead of 5. I'm making space for 7.

Perhaps the flight plan generators never use non-database 7-character waypoints. I need them because I'm doing it the other around, using the current FMC route (which may include pilot created waypoints) to generate an OFP weather data text in Cirrus format etc.


|-|ardy



Hardy Heinlin

#116
Cirrus:

LAT    LONG    WAYPT  ITT   DIS FL  TMP      SECTOR W/V

                                         100   200   310   350
N4038.4W07346.7 KJFK  140     1
N4038.0W07346.3 JFK   032    53     P10 19058 23079 24092 23106
N4122.9W07308.2 MERIT 059    31     M04 19061 23076 24083 24093


KJFK is the start of the route. Why is there a DIS of 1 nm to KJFK? I saw this "1" in other Cirrus samples too. Shouldn't the origin distance always be "0" or blank? And why is there an ITT of 140° to the start of the route?

(This has no technical meaning to my purposes; I'm just trying to reproduce the text design.)


|-|ardy


P.S.: What are the OAT reference altitudes at JFK and MERIT (P10 and M04)? "FL" values are only indicated for cruise waypoints. JFK and MERIT are climb waypoints.

Britjet

Hardy,

My Cirrus manual simply states...
Forecast temperature at the planned level in degrees Celsius. M denotes minus, P plus.

Peter

Hardy Heinlin

Thanks, Peter. That's clear. But in that sample there's no "planned level" indicated at JFK (P10) and MERIT (M04), so I don't know what levels these temps refer to.

In my version, for all climb and descent waypoints, I indicate the respective predicted profile altitudes (in rounded FL values), and the displayed temps refer to them.

(And I leave the ITT and DIS blank for the initial fix.)


|-|ardy

Britjet

Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 10 Nov 2018 14:56
Thanks, Peter. That's clear. But in that sample there's no "planned level" indicated at JFK (P10) and MERIT (M04), so I don't know what levels these temps refer to.
|-|ardy

Yes, I know :-( Unfortunately this is the only text that refers to this - even for the descent figures..
Peter