Winds aloft injection -- just an idea ...

[G-CIVA]

Hardy,

Here are some screenshots of PFPX in action with the different wind outputs (which have been written into airline specific flight plan formats) The same flightplan has been used - all I have done is select a different flight plan output format.

The areas highlighted in blue were simply highlighted by my mouse on the screen & 'copied'.  From there the data can be pasted to basically anywhere.

PFPX showing UPS format:



PFPX showing UPS format containing Wind Data Output 1:



PFPX showing Asiana format:



PFPX showing Asiana format containing Wind Data Output 2:



PFPX showing BAW Cirrus format:



PFPX showing BAW Cirrus containing Wind Data Output 3:

[Hardy Heinlin]

Yes, that's the way. Just copy & paste with mouse or keyboard.

Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?


(So the name of the third one is not Louie but Cirrus.)

[Bastien]

With regard to Simbrief - speaking as someone who does not use this online tool ARE WE ABSOLUTELY SURE that Sim Brief ONLY produces one Wind Data output format?

The sample I've provided is an OFP in the Simbrief default format: LIDO
Simbrief has actually several OFP Airline layout available (more than 23)
I Assume Hardy will not cover all these format?

I remember Gary's PSX.NET Dispatch system uses Simbrief OFP BAW layout


Please find below an OFP in BAW Layout from Simbrief:

Code Select Expand

CIRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 7 OF 10 BA 000/13 - PLAN  1 1804 14MAR14

LAT    LONG    WAYPT  ITT   DIS FL  TMP      SECTOR W/V

                                         100   200   310   350
N4038.4W07346.7 KJFK  140     1
N4038.0W07346.3 JFK   032    53     P10 19058 23079 24092 23106
N4122.9W07308.2 MERIT 059    31     M04 19061 23076 24083 24093
N4138.5W07232.8 HFD   058    37     M18 19066 23074 25093 24110
N4157.3W07150.6 PUT   041    16     M42 19060 23067 25094 24105
                                         310   330   350   370
N4520.4W06744.3 TOPPS 037   614 350 M54 26119 26127 25134 26141
N5259.9W05720.6 STEAM 057   100 350 M52 27093 27090 27084 27074
                                         320   340   360   380
N5352.0W05458.0 OYSTR 066   186 360 M52 26065 26065 26061 26057
N5500.0W05000.0 55N05 066   356 360 M52 24044 24047 24047 24047
N5700.0W04000.0 57N04 085   327 360 M56 22079 22078 22076 22074
N5700.0W03000.0 57N03 096   336 360 M59 22119 22122 22117 22111
N5600.0W02000.0 56N02 087   168 360 M58 22068 22070 22073 22075
N5600.0W01500.0 PIKIL 089    34 360 M57 23044 23045 23047 23049
N5600.0W01400.0 SOVED 104   261 360 M57 23041 23043 23044 23045
                                         330   350   370   390
N5442.5W00640.8 OSMEG 100    16 370 M59 27006 26005 24004 21003
N5439.7W00613.8 BEL   124    16 370 M58 32004 33004 34003 00003
N5430.9W00551.7 DUFFY 124    12 370 M58 32004 33004 34003 00003
N5423.9W00534.3 RINGA 124    35 370 M58 06012 06013 06013 07013
N5404.0W00445.8 IOM   124    17 370 M58 05017 05017 06017 06017
N5354.3W00421.9 KELLY 124    30 370 M58 05021 05022 05022 05022
N5336.9W00339.8 PENIL 125    23 370 M58 05021 05022 05022 05022
N5323.5W00308.1 WAL   126    22 370 M58 05036 05037 06038 06040
N5310.1W00238.2 MOGTA 127     3 370 M58 05036 05037 06038 06040
N5308.3W00234.0 NANTI 124    11 370 M58 05036 05037 06038 06040
N5301.8W00218.2 NUGRA 147    24 370 M58 05041 05043 06043 06044
                                         100   200   310   350


                                                           
CIRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 8 OF 10 BA 000/13 - PLAN  1 1804 14MAR14

LAT    LONG    WAYPT  ITT   DIS FL  TMP      SECTOR W/V

N5213.0W00128.0 TOBID 139    20     M29 04026 05041 06052 06055
N5157.5W00106.4 SOPIT 139     8     M13 04026 05041 06052 06055
N5151.2W00057.7 WCO   116    17     M07 04026 05041 06052 06055
N5143.6W00033.0 BNN   167    15     P04 04026 05041 06052 06055
DESC                                 FL  100   150   200   310
WIND                                    04026 05039 05041 06052

N5128.7W00027.7 EGLL 


[Hardy Heinlin]

See, the nice thing with this trick is that various programs can generate the Cirrus format, and PSX can parse it.

What are the two columns after the waypoint identifier? (Before the OAT flight level.) Is that leg course and distance?

All wind directions are TRUE north, right?

[G-CIVA]

What are the two columns after the waypoint identifier? (Before the OAT flight level.)

Initial True Track to the nearest whole degree & Segment Distance in Nautical Miles.

All wind directions are TRUE north, right?

Good question .... I have looked through the document I have on this subject & it does not mention anywhere in the relevant section about them being TRUE or MAG.

The Simbrief output Bastien has published may well belong to a customer that uses a well known large flight planning organisation but I can assure you it is not that well known large flight planning organisations default wind data output.  Any guesses where Gary got his simbrief Cirrus format from?

[Hardy Heinlin]

The Cirrus (aloft wind & OAT) formats from Simbrief and PFPX are both identical?

[G-CIVA]

The Cirrus (aloft wind & OAT) formats from Simbrief and PFPX are both identical?

Check with Gary on that one ... he did all the Simbrief work.

[Hardy Heinlin]

Your PFPX Cirrus sample looks the same.


Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?

[G-CIVA]

Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?

The only turbulence data PFPX can parse is SHEAR RATE measured from 0 - 9; this is only parsed within the <Navlog> section of the template if the correct syntax is declared.  Shear Rate is not parsed into the Wind Output formats.

Unfortunately the Shear Rate is not included in the Navlog section of a Cirrus OFP.

Could a solution be to allow for an optional extra column on the far left for the user to enter the two digit SHEAR RATE number that he reads from the <Navlog> part of the OFP?

[Bastien]

Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?

this information is not provided in SIGMET area, like the sample below ?

Code Select Expand

================ ENROUTE AIRSPACES ==================================
FUKUOKA FIR (RJJJ)
///SIGMET Jul 251315z-Jul 251915z
WCJP31 RJTD 251315
RJJJ SIGMET A03 VALID 251315/251915 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
TC JONGDARI PSN N2150 E13720 CB OBS AT 1200Z WI N2100 E13550
- N2205 E13550 - N2310 E13710 - N2310 E13805 - N2100 E13737
- Not for real world navigation - Page 28 of 84
KLM 0622 RJCC/LFPG 25.JUL.2018/0905Z
- N2100 E13550 TOP FL540 INTSF FCST AT 1800Z TC CENTRE PSN
N2205 E13740=
///SIGMET Jul 251335z-Jul 251935z
WCJP31 RJTD 251335
RJJJ SIGMET Y04 VALID 251335/251935 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
TC WUKONG PSN N3520 E15720 CB OBS AT 1200Z WI 55NM OF TC
CENTRE TOP FL450 NC FCST AT 1800Z TC CENTRE PSN N3650
E15625=

[Hardy Heinlin]

The shear rate between wind data points will appear in the simulation automatically as a consequence. The simulation may then increase turbulence effects accordingly.

[G-CIVA]

Just a word of caution here folks ...

How many users have the resources to 'intelligently' interpolate this type of rather complex data as illustrated immediately above what I am saying here?  There are a lot of LATLONS & FIRs to interpolate there ... not every user will have the ability to do this with sufficient accuracy .... does the information actually lie upon the intended route of flight? Is it in a format that can be interpolated & interrogated? If this info is just entered 'en masse' are we not then guilty of needlessly stretching resources? ... which was what Hardy was setting out to avoid in the first place?

Just some thoughts.

[cagarini]

All wind directions are TRUE north, right?

Other than those provided by Twr, always TRUE, and I expect SimBrief and PFPX not to alter the source values...

Turbulence and other significant weather / phenomena is covered by SIGMET / GAMET as well as AIRMET / AIREP

See here : https://www.icao.int/APAC/Documents/edocs/WS-SIGMET.pdf

[Bastien]

Here another exemple the Flight Plan weather part (LIDO format):
You can find interesting things like Tropical cyclone or Volcanic Ash SIGMETs

Code Select Expand

[ Airport WX List ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
RJCC --> LFPG    KL   622 / 25JUL2018
LIDO/WEATHER SERVICE       DATE : 25Jul2018   TIME : 10:40 UTC
AIRMETs:
  No Wx data available
SIGMETSs:
RJJJ  FUKUOKA FIR
  WS  SIGMET W01 VALID 250810/251210 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
             SEV TURB FCST WI N4130 E14730 - N4521 E15039 - N4634
             E15249 - N4600 E15500 - N4040 E14950 - N4130 E14730
             FL320/370 STNR INTSF=
UHHH  KHABAROVSK FIR
  WS  SIGMET 5 VALID 250900/251230 UHHH- UHHH KHABAROVSK FIR
             EMBD TS FCST E OF E129 AND S OF N50 AND W OF E142 AND
             N OF N46 TOP FL400 MOV E 30KMH NC=
UEEE  YAKUTSK FIR
  WS  SIGMET 2 VALID 250800/251200 UEEE- UEEE YAKUTSK FIR
             EMBD TS FCST S OF N70 AND E OF E119 TOP FL320 STNR NC=
UNKL  KRASNOYARSK FIR
  WS  SIGMET 6 VALID 250900/251300 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
             EMBD TS FCST S OF LINE N5500 E08847 - N5253 E09900 TOP
             FL380 MOV NE 20KMH NC=
  WS  SIGMET 7 VALID 250900/251300 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
             EMBD TS FCST WI N7323 E09100 - N6728 E09432 - N6412
             E09347 - N6440 E08403 - N7052 E07835 - N7153 E07600 -
             N7323 E09100 TOP FL390 MOV SE 20KMH NC=
  WS  SIGMET 8 VALID 251000/251200 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
             OBSC TS FCST WI N5721 E08810 - N5727 E09732 - N5400
             E09600 - N5500 E08840 - N5604 E08905 - N5721 E08810
             TOP FL380 MOV NE 20KMH NC=
  WS  SIGMET 9 VALID 251000/251400 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
             OBSC TS FCST WI N6700 E10655 - N6200 E10700 - N5838
             E10320 - N6058 E09401 - N6540 E09407 - N6700 E10655
             TOP FL380 MOV SE 20KMH NC=
Tropical Cyclone SIGMETs:
RJJJ  FUKUOKA FIR
  WC  SIGMET A02 VALID 250715/251315 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
             TC JONGDARI PSN N2135 E13700 CB OBS AT 0600Z WI N2100
             E13507 - N2405 E13755 - N2310 E13925 - N2100 E13810 -
             N2100 E13507 TOP FL540 INTSF FCST AT 1200Z TC CENTRE
             PSN N2155 E13720=
  WC  SIGMET Y03 VALID 250735/251335 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
             TC WUKONG PSN N3355 E15755 CB OBS AT 0600Z WI 55NM OF
             TC CENTRE TOP FL440 NC FCST AT 1200Z TC CENTRE PSN
             N3520 E15710=
Volcanic Ash SIGMETs:
RJJJ  FUKUOKA FIR
  WV  SIGMET C02 VALID 250610/251210 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
             MT SAKURAJIMA (AIRA CALDERA) PSN N3136 E13039 VA CLD
             OBS AT 0520Z WI N3118 E13014 - N3136 E13038 - N3134
             E13040 - N3120 E13030 - N3105 E13029 - N3118 E13014
             SFC/FL070 FCST AT 1120Z WI N3048 E12927 - N3135 E13040
             - N3029 E13014 - N3048 E12927=

[Bastien]

Now just one observation, the LIDO format provides more information about FL/wind/temp than the BAW/Cirrus format.

Here a "wind information" view of the same waypoint in the same OFP.

LIDO

Code Select Expand

YOROI
330 322/028 -34
310 313/026 -29
290 306/025 -24
270 303/026 -20
250 300/027 -15

BAW/Cirrus

Code Select Expand

N4500.5E14147.1 YOROI 002 12 290 M24 30027 30026 31025 31026

[Hardy Heinlin]

Lido 5 wind & OAT records, Cirrus 4 wind records and 1 OAT record -- you mean that?

[Bastien]

Lido 5 wind & OAT records, Cirrus 4 wind records and 1 OAT record -- you mean that?

Yes, you don't have the temp for each record in cirrus

[Will]

I agree with what Cavaricooper said above, that there's something really nice about flight planning based on a future forecast, and then flying into that forecast to see how accurate it turns out to be.

I think we would lose something if PSX took projected winds from a flight plan and incarnated them as actual winds in the simulated world.

I've found that if you look at an upper level prog chart, and then drag PSX's jet stream sliders around to mimic the shape of the forecast jet stream, then the winds aloft you find in PSX match very well with the winds predicted by the flight planning package.

[Hardy Heinlin]

There will be an optional randomizer for data drifts.

[Gary Oliver]

Hardy,

Happy to work with whatever format you go with as its just string manipulation and easy to work with.

However for ease of use with people who dont want to use PSX dispatch (!!???!?) I wonder it its easier just stick with the widely available WX Format or CIRRUS thats available in PFPX and Simbrief.

I would also request a method of injecting a text file or via the network interface so I can hook this in with PSX dispatch and BACARS automatically with no copy and paste.

Loving the idea...

Example PSX.NET/Simbrief Cirrus Format :-

Code Select Expand


IRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 7 OF 9 BA 9201/25 - PLAN  1 2232 25JUL18

LAT    LONG    WAYPT  ITT   DIS FL  TMP      SECTOR W/V

                                         100   200   310   350
N5128.7W00027.7 EGLL  269     4         
N5128.6W00031.0 D253B 151    10     P14 20019 19011 14016 12019
N5119.7W00023.1 D163J 136     1     M06 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.2W00022.3 EPM   091     4     M08 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.1W00015.1 DET32 091     3     M13 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.0W00010.4 D272H 091    24     M16 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5118.4E00027.9 D272E 091     5     M38 20018 18012 14015 12018

Cheers
Gary