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Is the end of generous contribution of the great PSX Community ?

Started by Bastien, Mon, 11 Dec 2017 12:42

Bastien

Hi all,

I would thank all the generous contributors of this unique community, of their talent, the spent time, .... for making this product the best since 1995.

I understand that some of you would like to get some money for their work, and my hope that won't sign the end of this great spirit here from the beginning !!

It would be very sad to see this wonderful community turned into an ordinary "payware" community just for making money .....

Regards
Bastien

Edit:
Just to be clear, it's not a matter of money, nor amount/quality of the work done. But for me it's more about the principle and respect of all other free contributions.

Gary Oliver

Bastien,

This is absolutely not the end for anything made by the Simfest/PSX.NET Group and I am sure the same is true of other developers.

The following will always remain free under our 'buy us a beer sometime' policy (Windows Only unfortunately):-

BACARS, PSX.NET, PSX.NET (Ground Services, Doors, Wind Uplink, Weather Link fromP3D,Comms Panel Driver, MOTU Integration for Intercomms), ExternalSim Visuals Link, External Sim Traffic Link, InterfaceIT for PSX, IO Cards for PSX.

Of course all of the random stuff we have written for the simulator including very customised code is free to be shared with anyone in the community if they get in contact. 

After all without others in the community pooling our resources together for the best of our simulators and PSX we wouldn't have half the sim we do now.   That is what is so great.. Garry started Visual PSX and shared knowledge with Mark.  Hardy shares knowledge with us so we can write the addons.  All the 744 builders have swapped advice on interfacing, how hardware works and various aspects of our simulators.

That is what makes the PSX community standout!

The only exception to this rule would be the 'Master Pin Out Guide to the 744' which we have collected over 3 years with various sim builders comes under the 'buy us two beers' rule.

Coming up next from the Simfest/PSX.NET group :-

-Fully integrated flight planning and dispatch system integrating Simbrief.  No need to download/create route files, wind files, loadsheets or OFPS, PSX BACARS will pick all the information for you, even setting your ZFW and Pre Fuel. This should be fun.

-A lot more additions to External sim, however they can stay quiet under the 'three beers' rule for now, until Mark turns up :-)

Of course if people want to release payway for PSX they are free to do so.  After all I do PSX development as a side show to my real world IT job, for some reason when you charge people they become more demanding :-)

I am sure it is only a matter of time until a 'beerware' version of any paid software comes around. Although in this case it appears to have been the other way round.

Cheers
Gary and The Simfest Team
www.simfest.co.uk
www.psxaddons.com


Mark

Gary pays me with Sauvignon Blanc; I turn up at his house and he immediately hands me a glass of wine before saying hello, I could not ask for a more satisfying reward!

In all seriousness, I donate a lot of my time to writing free software to the PSX sim community and I justify it as being my charitable contribution to society. My efforts help the Simfest team raise a lot of money; I think the sum of our efforts result in more money than if we all did individual charity fundraising.

The Simfest team gets tremendous satisfaction and reward every year so I don't see our events ending anytime soon, thus my free software development efforts in support of Simfest will continue.

It really helps that the PSX community is such a classy and graceful group - I will never tire of seeing the high level of mutual respect in all of our forum posts and the heartfelt thanks many of you give me.

kev32b

I would just like to second that what Gary said this community is the dogs bullocks excuse the pun, without it and the add on`s from some wonderful guys i and probably most simmers wouldn't have the sims we do today, I can understand some want to make money out of the products fair pay to them ( but if i`m paying for something i don`t expect to have do a lot of work to get it to work and i`m sure most people don`t either.).

So to the simfest guys keep up the good work and i send you a six pack (for the latest updates pls. )

Regards
Kev

Chris Kilroy

I, like so many others, owe Gary, Mark, Jon Boe, and many others in the PSX community a huge debt of gratitude.

In fact, I would guess that probably more than 75% of the functionality in my own simulator (off the top of my head - visuals, overhead, MIP, autothrottles, speedbrake, trim indicators, weather radar, display dimmers, enhanced sounds, ground services, performance data.... and I'm sure I've forgotten more) would not have been possible without the software that these gentlemen have so generously donated to the PSX community.

To be clear, I have no problem with payware, specifically developers wanting to be paid for their work. It's probably a little embarrassing how much money I've spent on quality airport sceneries for P3D. Simming wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable without all of these guys and the contributions they make, too, and I am only too happy to open my wallet to enjoy their work.

As Kevin mentioned, what makes this community different, and such a great thing to be a part of, is the free exchange of knowledge and information between everyone (well, almost everyone) involved. I don't have programming knowledge (at least outside of web-based stuff), so I try to give back in other ways. I always try to share any little tips, tricks, settings etc that I've come across during the build process. When Kevin was in Vegas, I had him round to fly the simulator, an offer that is open to anyone in the PSX community should you find yourself in town. When Simfest has their events, I try to donate as generously as I can. The fact that the money goes to a good cause that everyone can get behind makes that feel far more satisfying than buying any sort of payware scenery package.

To me, it all boils down to the fact that my simulator (and I would imagine, every simulator running PSX) works, at least to some degree, because of the freely contributed hard work of others. While I can't contribute to the community on the level that the gentlemen mentioned above have done, whatever I can contribute, I'll happily do so for free, and I'll support these guys (by donating to charity, buying alcohol, or whatever else) however I can. Anything else would be taking from the community and refusing to give back, which is not how I was raised.

brian747

To suggest an answer to Bastien's original question, it can hardly be "the end of generous contribution of the great PSX Community" now, in view of the fact that (very occasionally) people have been charging for their add-ons for a considerable time. IIRC, the first time I paid for a PS add-on was when I registered PS1FPLAN back in 1999 (whilst I was still working on 'The Big Tutorial' for PS1, which took me nearly two years to write and was presented to the community as freeware, as were my shorter tutorials for PSX).

I do therefore have to admit to feeling that, in keeping with the unique spirit of our community and in a spirit of "giving back", add-ons should ideally be free — as indeed nearly all of them are. However, I have to also (although admittedly with some misgivings in our rather special case) defend the right of authors to offer their add-ons for sale if they determine upon such a course.

It would indeed be a huge sadness if the spirit of this community ever changed and it stopped being the enormously friendly and generously cooperative group of people that it always has been. In fact, more than a sadness, it would be a tragedy. But knowing our members as I feel that I have come to do over the last twenty years, I honestly can't believe that any such change could be triggered merely because two or three out of the many who provide PSX's hugely-appreciated add-ons have opted to release their work as payware.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments above regarding the very special nature of our community spirit. This has always been one of this forum's major strengths and its glories, and long may that continue to be the case!

Cheers,

Brian
(Author of "The Big Tutorial" for PS1, and "Getting started with PSX" Parts 1, 2, and 3).

JP59

Gentlemen,

From the first day comment "WidePSX is a payware version of PSX.NET" to this thread about WidePSX, without naming it only once, a lot of false things have been said about me and my application since 3 days. During WidePSX development, some friends warned me about what is happening. It is now time for me to say my truth, after all this is a free forum, isn't it ? Ok, thanks gentlemen.

Let's talk about money, which is apparently the problem here. Most of you have hardware simulators. How many does your hardware simulation stuff cost ? Did you see a problem when buying this hardware ? Would you say hardware companies are just thinking about making money ? Do you think there are free hardware companies somewhere in the world ? You paid, sometimes a huge amount of money when I see some simulators, because you know, you can imagine the amount of work this parts represents.

Now tell me what is the difference with software ? The difference is that people can't touch software. Software is immaterial. As it is immaterial, some people think it doesn't represent a "real" work. The internet contributes to this misunderstanding. Nowadays, every immaterial thing can be easily found on the internet. It is of course many times illegal stuff (movies, music, softwares,...) but it is here and available, so why do not take it ? This is what many people think and do.

You speak about contribution to the community. Can you explain why WidePSX or any payware add-on could be less contributive to the community than freeware ? WidePSX brings new features, a new concept of application, why isn't it good for your community ? If it continues to grow I will surely add some more functionalities ? I wrote two free application (PSXAloft and PSXTools). I gave a lot to the community for free during many years. And I continue to give with a payware application. I have absolutely no problem with this, and I have no lesson to receive about what is fair or unfair.

Of course charging somebody to use your application brings you to another status. Selling is like signing a contract with the customer. This is the way I see things. You swear you will provide a decent and respectful aftermarket service, and of course bug corrections if any (fortunately I don't have that kind of report yet). People here knows I am a serious developer, in the community since many years. I hope they trust me. I am confident. WidePSX comes with a free and fully functional trial version, so the user can test my application before to buy it. This is a proof of my deep respect for my customers. I encourage everybody interested in purchasing WidePSX to try it before to buy. I have nothing to hide.

I have a deep respect for this wonderful PSX community, and for EVERY member of this forum. I respect every opinion. But I can't accept to be taken for a venal person who would exploit something or somebody. This is not why I wrote WidePSX. I wrote WidePSX to add more improvement to scenery generation bridge, regarding position offsets, implement a complete automated ground service simulation with voice conversations, make a cross platform application for Mac users, and with many modules which can be used "standalone" with PSX only. It covers many end usages. During development I realized it was going very far from what I needed here, in my own simulator. I understood I was writing a true commercial application, taking into account many use cases I will never use for my own usage. It became normal for me to charge a reasonable price for this huge work. Money is not the motivation of my work, it is the consequence of it. It makes a huge difference with what some words here would like to make people think.

For those who think my application is a copy of PSX.NET, I will soon post some FACTUAL comparative screenshots on WidePSX thread to show the real truth, and the many important factual differences. The goal is not to say which application is better, people will make their own opinion, they don't need somebody telling them what to do. The goal is to restablish truth about my application and my aim.

Thank you for reading.

Best regards,
Jean-philippe

Frans Spruit

Jean-philippe,

This has nothing to do with money. Many guys on this forum have spend a fortune on there sim.
Me and some other gentleman think you broke this forums Magic, and yes this is a free forum.

Kind Regards,

Frans