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News: The latest PSX update (version 10.13 from 17 November 2017) is available at: http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4191.0

Author Topic: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX  (Read 1003 times)

Aonang

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London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 03:21 »
I have just completed a flight with PSX that replicated the QANTAS 747 VH-OJA record breaking flight from EGLL to YSSY.

Normally such a flight would be very rewarding, satisfying and pleasurable but this flight was not completely so. The first issue being that I had to fly two aircraft, the one being in PSX and the other in FSX. Such was necessary in order to have online ATC (VATSIM) and VA ACARS tracking. It was also necessary to facilitate taxiing at both airports.

Flying two completely different simulators together proved to be very much a PITA, and often resulted in confused and incorrect commands.
There have been some posts on this forum suggesting that the slave simulator can be minimalised after take-off and essentially forgotten about but this is not so as ATC frequencies and squawk codes have to be set in FSX, as does QNH when at a controlled airfield.
On a longhaul flight the fuel on the FSX aircraft also has to be managed as it does in the PSX model.If we want realism, and afterall isn't that why we bought PSX, on longhaul flights particularly, we are flying two aircraft not one.
 
It seemed that VisualPSX was not able to send enough data (or perhaps the correct data) to the FSX aircraft, in this case a PMDG 744 in QANTAS livery, for it to fly correctly and to faithfully replicate  the PSX aircraft. The IAS of the FSX aircraft was continuously and violently fluctuating between extremes of zero knots and well above the redline. I will add that I fully pre-flighted the FSX aircraft such that it could have been flown in its own right. I should also add here that the same effects were experienced when using a default aircraft in FSX.
Also, because VisualPSX is unable to completely control FSX or give FSX all the data that it needs, landing rates as recorded by my VA's ACARS programme are completely incorrect. If a landing rate is reported it is often in the region of 700+ fpm where as the PSX model is reporting about -200fpm. There are other times when no rate is being reported at all.

The weather in PSX was also an issue with PSX reporting winds aloft far below those reported in ASN and therefore in the FSX aircraft. For a large part of my flight, particularly down through the Middle-East and across Australia, the upper winds were consistently 90+ kts but the PSX weather engine was only reporting about 40-45kts and occasionally, and briefly, 55-60 Kts.

This flight has shown me that although PSX is an excellent simulator for which Hardy must be congratulated and thanked, it still has quite a way to go before it can be considered complete and therefore able to provide its full rewards.

Mike

United744

  • Join date: Oct 2014
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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 03:30 »
I don't recognize your description at all.

I've flown multiple flights on VATSIM with PSX and it has been great.

The biggest point to note is you shouldn't link PSX to FSX when using a 3rd party add-on in FSX (especially not something like PMDG).

As for the rest of it, are you trying to run PSX over a wireless network? I run gigabit ethernet without any problems.

I have the FSX computer set up as the Boost server so FSX is running locally and not hitting the network unnecessarily hard, and fly the PSX server for maximum fluidity of PSX.

I have also recently switched to XPlane 11 for visuals, and again, no problems at all.

PSX is by far the best simulator you can get for the home computer. I fail to see what is missing, or "incomplete".

If you want to create a PSX version of BA ACARS, then that is entirely possible as PSX allows a developer to interact with it via network messages. This will correct some of the problems of reading FSX.

Oh... and I run FSX in a VM...

Aonang

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 03:53 »
Hello United747,
I totally agree with your point about PSX being the best there is for a PC. That is why I bought it.

At the moment I have everything on the one computer albeit on separate SSDs; for VATSIM I am using FSInn external to FSX.  My VA ACARS programme is the only application on a separate notebook and is connecting to FSX through WideFS and FSUIPC.

I have wondered whether BACARS could offer an answer but I only discovered it yesterday and know very little if anything about it at the moment. That is something else to read about. The long list of reading material seems to grow and grow. :-)

I do not understand what you mean when you say you run FSX in a VM.

Mike

United744

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 04:00 »
I don't have PCs only Macs, so to run FSX I run it in a virtual computer (Virtual Machine, or VM) window so I can then link to VATSIM through FS.

Using XPlane however I don't need to do that.

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 07:26 »
This flight has shown me that although PSX is an excellent simulator for which Hardy must be congratulated and thanked, it still has quite a way to go before it can be considered complete and therefore able to provide its full rewards.

Mike

Sorry to say this, but it's not my goal to turn PSX into an FSX add-on, and therefore there is no question whether the process of PSX becoming an FSX add-on is completed or not. The primary purpose of PSX is pilot training at airlines and universities, using PSX stand-alone in classes without add-ons. There is no "quite a way to go" as you wrote. The goal is already reached.


Regards,

|-|ardy

cavaricooper

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 11:43 »
The issues you experienced are solely because you chose PMDG for your FSX aircraft (especially ironic for me to say). It is too complex to serve as a camera platform. If you use the default FSX 744, or the POSKY one you will have none of these problems (except the landing rate capture which cannot be fixed). If VisualPSX or ExternalSim is correctly set up, the goal is to DO NOTHING ON THE FSX AIRCRAFT (preflight, fuel etc). It is SOLELY A CAMERA PLATFORM.

I have long moved to P3D v4 and ExternalSim, but I assure you the PSX + VisualPSX + scenery generator combination can provide a wonderful experience on or offline (Vatsim).

Rinse and repeat, after a bit of research, and you ought to be much happier. PSX is different from anything in the flight simulation world- period.

Best- C
Carl Avari-Cooper, KTPA

Markus Vitzethum

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 15:48 »
I can just second Carl's statement - just think of FSX or P3D as a visual system, that is as a "dumb" system that is just following the PSX movements. In no way it's a smart system or a second plance that should be flown or programmed or anything whatsoever.

Actually, it turns out that almost anything can be interfaced directly to PSX with the exception of possibly VATSIM connection (which needs a "visual system" like FSX, P3D or Xplane, for a good reason [taxiways, traffic]). Please see my other message ... I wonder what ACARS client your are using. If by chance you are using Xacars, than there is a chance that I might offer a direct PSX interface for Xacars. But please see my other message for details.

Markus

Gary Oliver

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 19:13 »
Hi,

I am also a little confused... I run PSX and external sim with P3D V3.

I have no issues flying online at all...In fact for several world flights and many hours of online flying on VATSIM its all been pretty stable.

PSX.NET.External sim drives my plane around in P3D

I also use PSX.NET.Weather and .Wind to sync the upper winds with PSX from my FSGlobal injected weather into P3D.

PSX.NET.Traffic syncs all my traffic between my visual machines and into PSX TCAS.

BACARS then provides me with an interface for requesting VATSIM ATIS, interacting with PDC and Oceanic Clearance requests.

I did look down the route of writing a VATSIM client for PSX, however VATSIM politics and faff got involved.  I believe Mark is looking at writing a vPilot plug in which will help hook PSX direct to vPilot for most of the functions.

If I can be of any help setting things up then give me a shout.  I also think you should apologise to Hardy for suggesting PSX is in some way incomplete... PSX is not... Some of us addon developers aren't wizards like Hardy so need a few versions of things to get it right :-)  Us users also have to get our head round a much better way of doing things with PSX.

Cheers
Gary

Mark

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 19:25 »
It simply comes down to the fact that you have to treat FSX/P3D/X-plane as a planet Earth visuals generator for PSX.
Carl describes it as a 'camera platform' which is a great way to explain it.

I believe Mark is looking at writing a vPilot plug in which will help hook PSX direct to vPilot for most of the functions.

Yep - the plan is to have something that can do the VATSIM <--> PSX connection without any PSX/P3D middleman required. We'll be using it in the sim for reliable traffic injection.

There probably isn't an easy solution for the VA tracking.

Markus Vitzethum

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 20:06 »
> There probably isn't an easy solution for the VA tracking.

It just depends on which protocol is used.  ;D

My own point of departure was using the Xacars VA tracker being connected to FSX and it gave me lots of trouble (to track PSX flights). John Golin was quite right in suggesting that this should be done by connecting to PSX directly.
This is what I did and wrote my own PSX Xacars tracker, see http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=2738.msg27186#msg27186

I'm pretty sure that basically this can be done for any of the FSX ACARS trackers out there.

Markus


G-CIVA

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:48 »
So there you have it ...

You can have the most realistic simulation of a Boeing 747-400 hooked up to some fantastic visual scenery generation of pretty much anywhere on planet earth with injected real time weather, wind & temperature whilst connected to the largest online virtual ATC Network.

All of the applications to interface this & make it possible have been created buy users of PSX on this forum FREE of charge in their own time for you, moreover they are ready & willing to help, in their own time - as stated - just send them a PM.

When the developer (who incidentally is incredibly helpful & does actually does actually answer questions promptly in his forum) commences another Beta Test YOU - the owner of this product will be able to get involved & contribute fully to that test process if you want to ... now ... ask yourself ... where else could you do this?

The great thing about this place is that you will rub shoulders with the best.  The developer, real world pilots who still fly the 744 for a living, those who flew the 744 for most of their flying career & some incredibly clever people who can write the computer software codes to network PSX into other software via a computer network to enhance your overall experience.

This is the friendliest & most adult flight simulation forum there is.

You'll soon forget you ever belonged to a Virtual Airline with all their pretend numbers & gold stars.

Seek & ye shall find.

Blue skies.
« Last edit: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 23:00 by G-CIVA »
Steve Bell
aka The CC

thecrazedlog

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 21:54 »
I'm still marvelling that the above thread has not gone like so many others on the internet do: personal attacks, threats of abandoning software and demands that the devs fix it immediately. Hardy: Maybe you'd better lock the thread so that we can hold this up as a beacon of hope for the internet that somewhere sanity and reason remains. :D

To the OP: You're trying to get multiple bits of software to work together and it is not uncommon for that to present problems. I doubt that either sim was specifically designed for this situation in mind (Though PSX may have been) and so the fact that it works as well as it does is a minor miracle. Having said that, in the brief time I used VisualPSX I had no problems like you describe. On X-Plane with XView I do sometimes have a bouncy nosewheel that is fixed by disconnecting and reconnecting X-Plane.

I would caution you against using PMDG as the visual element for FSX: PMDG have made a fantastic sim but in doing so I believe they do things outside of FSX that FSX is not really aware of. They have to in order to get the functionality they need. PMDG expects to be flying with PMDG, not having some ring in third party software telling it what to do. My guess is that PMDG was trying to make itself go zero knots because everything was shutdown and on the ground while VisualPSX was trying to do the opposite. I suggest PoSKY 747-400 myself. It is a (systems wise) much simpler aircraft and would not have any of the background programming. See how that goes for you. If the problem ceases, go back to PMDG. If the problem re-occurs, we know that PMDG + PSX = bad.

With regards to plug ins to FSX, again I would caution on doing that. Try and run everything off PSX as you can. Its chinese whispers really: PSX tells FSX something that tells the addon something. Things get translated every which way and who knows what'll come out in the wash. Try and set things up so that PSX is the single source of truth and you'll probably find that things will work a lot better.

I personally moved away from FS-X to X-Plane because 1) I wanted the better looks 2) I wanted to move away from Windows (still haven't managed that yet) and 3) It was being developed.

Hardy Heinlin

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 23:20 »
I also think you should apologise to Hardy for suggesting PSX is in some way incomplete...

That's not necessary :-) I'm not feeling offended. We were just sharing our opinions about a technical product.


Cheers,

|-|ardy


P.S.: I think Mike misunderstood the concept; perhaps he thought that those add-ons that utilize other simulators as external scenery displays not only get PSX's position and attitude data but also all of PSX's aircraft system effects. This, of course, is impossible. And it can never be the goal. How and why should PSX inject its zillions of system effects into the aircraft model of another simulator which doesn't even have the basis to do something with that data? I can't inject pepper to make the external soup spicier if there isn't even an external dish for a soup.

Total aircraft system synchronization is only possible between PSX simulators.

« Last edit: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 23:42 by Hardy Heinlin »

Aonang

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 02:19 »
I am grateful for all the comments and suggestions made to my post, thank you all.

Thecrazedlog: you have made a very good comment, which I initially misread, you are right as there are no personal attacks, threats or demands that other forums would probably claim in my post, if there are such to be intimated then the reader has misread my post).

The problem that I have faced since my very short time flying PSX (just six flights I think) is finding and learning about the modules that could probably solve some of my problems. A further problem is that most of the modules that I have found appear to be exclusively for P3D and incompatible with FSX. I do not wish to buy P3D, certainly not just yet, as I have a lot of expensive FSX add-ons that are not transferable without even more expensive outlays.

I am sure that I will get to appreciate PSX the more I fly it as it is an excellent simulator that has the ability to challenge my flying skills and to add to my enjoyment of virtual flying. I am a frustrated PPL with an unutilised CCP/IR and for various reasons (money and work being two, age being another) the computer has become my only means of satiating my hunger for flight.

Mike

thecrazedlog

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 02:49 »
Hey Mike:

Apologies if you misunderstood what I was saying. I was marvelling at how instead of this thread descending into a flame war which is so typical of the internet these days, everyone (including yourself) took the time to try and correct a few misunderstandings and everyone has profited from it. It is very rare that this happens.

Regarding real flying, I know the feeling. The ink is still drying on my PPL, but I don't think I'll be able to use it much. It was a lifelong dream to be able to call myself a pilot, I can do that now.

Regarding FSX/P3D, I would suggest examining X-Plane. There are some good addons out there, but once you get your teeth into PSX nothing will come close.

CarlBB

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 00:57 »
Regarding FSX/P3D, I would suggest examining X-Plane.

I've just dipped my feet back into the X-Plane 11 / PSX combination (thanks to xview) and can second that. For me it is a very nice experience. The X-Plane 11 install for this is just pure vanilla - no controls are calibrated etc.

- Carl

Toga

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:21 »
That's a long flight!!!

Aonang

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:11 »
Hi Toga,
Sorry I have not replied earlier, I have been engrossed in problems with FSX/PSX but I am back up and running I think (hope?).
Yes it was a long flight, 20hrs 10 minutes. The interesting thing was that I was only a couple of minutes off the time taken for the real world flight.  :)

Toga

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 15:52 »
My advice is to ditch P3D/FSX and stick with X-plane. It's far less hassle and far better looking IMO.

T

GodAtum

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Re: London to Sydney non-stop with PSX
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:49 »
PSX.NET.External sim drives my plane around in P3D

I also use PSX.NET.Weather and .Wind to sync the upper winds with PSX from my FSGlobal injected weather into P3D.

PSX.NET.Traffic syncs all my traffic between my visual machines and into PSX TCAS.

Hi Gary, where can I get these?