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Apron => Accessories => Topic started by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:22

Title: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:22
The last couple of days I found out that Martin's layout tool is indispensable. I installed the tool today on my desktop (where the Aerowinx folder is situated too) and altered the .ini :/users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
It does not work. I put the Elvis folder in the Aerowinx folder and changed the ini to this situation : does not work.

Is there any clou?

T.



hoppie did a few typo corrections for clarity
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 16:00
Hello Ton,

good to have you back! Although I'm a bit late, let me join the "Welcome!" chorus: it's always splendid to see members of the Old Gang return! (...and even resuscitate  ELVis!) :D

As to the issue with the latter gentleman:

Quote from: Ton
It does not work.

This is the kind of report most dreaded in User Support...  :-[

But let's see...

¤ Are you running under Windows or under some kind of *ix?
My first idea was that the path in Elvis.ini does perhaps not use the right separator (forward slash for *ix, backslash for Windozes), but that seems actually not to matter (and it shouldn't, but I had to try it, it's been a while...)

Moreover,
Quote from: Ton
:/users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
¤ Probably just a typo but the path does start with a drive letter? (if you run under Windows, that is)

Quote from: Ton
I put the Elvis folder in the Aerowinx folder and changed the ini to this situation
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "situation" here.
¤ The ELVis JAR file can be in any folder as long as the INI file is in the same one.
It's then the INI file's job to find the PSX layouts folder.
(BTW, note also that ELVis does not require PSX itself to be running.)

Next:
¤ Do you get any error messages from ELVis himself?
These will always be seen (as "pop-ups") immediately.

However, if you start the program by double clicking on the JAR file, any error messages from Java will not become visible automatically.
¤ Please try to start ELVis from a command line  (a.k.a "console" for *ix, or "Command Prompt" for Windozes), using the command
Code: [Select]
java -jar PSX_ELVis.jarIf anything goes wrong with Java, you'll then see quite a tapeworm of error messages; please share.

Also let us know which Java version you are using:
Code: [Select]
java -version from the command line will do the trick.

All this should keep you nicely busy for a while...  :D
Let us know how it goes.
And rest assured: ELVis lives!

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 17:20
Quote from: Ton
Error: Unable to access jarfile PSX_ELVis.jar

Sounds like either you are not in the folder where this .jar file lives, or the access permissions of this .jar file do not allow you to open it.

The Mac command line has the same CD style Change Directory commands a Windows, except that the slashes are forward / instead of backward. MacOS is actually a Unix derivative, so much closer to Linux than Windows.

Hoppie

EDIT *DARNIT* I did it again, using Modify instead of Quote... sorry Ton, I thereby deleted your original message...
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 17:46
Hi Ton, does ELVis not start? Try right-click on the ELVis icon to open a pop-up menu, then left-click "Open". Maybe Catalina doesn't trust all Java apps.


|-|
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 20:09
Quote from: Hardy
Maybe Catalina doesn't trust all Java apps.
Not even Elvis?
That's the final proof that Apple is overdoing it with their closed universe...
 ;D
Seriously, if this is all playing on a Mac, I can't help much, as I don't have one. Wasn't there also an issue about certain Java versions on Macs?

Cheers,
Martin
 
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 20:12
Thanks Hardy, but it did not work. Before install I downloaded 9I think) the SDK of Java because Catalina did not support Java anymore. I did the trick because PSX was working fine. I reinstalled Java 8 but it changes nothing. Could Catalina be the problem (https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/using-jdk-jre-macos-catalina-5781620.html)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 21:52
If PSX starts normally on your Catalina OS, all other Java apps should start as well, I think.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 22:08
You are right...I will leave for the moment and will pick it up later....so match more to read and learn
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Avi on Sat, 9 Nov 2019 22:15
Ton,

Can you run CMC-PSX?
It is also a java program. Just unzip and run it (don't change anything in the ini file). It doesn't need even PSX to run (to work yes, but not to run).

You should get the program frame with an error message about sound files.
If no problems so far, open the ini file and update the PSX path and run again.
If everything is ok it should open without any error messages.
Are we ok so far?
if you want you may run now PSX (not realy important for our test), start the server and connect CMC-PSX to PSX. Does it connected (you should see CMC-PSX at the MENU page of the Center CDU)?

Cheers,
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:15
Hi Avi, thanks for the support. CMC pax is running fine....a lovely add-on!! I copied the same path to Elvis but to no avail. So I think it is not a java issue but probably a path issue or something minor what can be found one day :-)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Mon, 11 Nov 2019 19:12
Hello Ton,
Quote from: Ton
something minor what can be found one day
The question is, by whom?  ;D

I'd like to help some more, but don't quite see how...
It's  now clear that you are running a Mac with "Catalina" (not Windows), but I would need more info about
¤ how you start ELVis (clicking on the JAR file? command line?),
¤ what exactly happens (or not), and
¤ what the error messages (if any) say.

See my long post above (minus the Windows/*ix items which are now clear) for suggestions of things to do.

¤ In the meantime, has anyone at all succeeded in running ELVis on a Mac with "Catalina"?

Cheers,
Martin
 
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Markus Vitzethum on Mon, 11 Nov 2019 22:40
Hi Martin, Ton,

> In the meantime, has anyone at all succeeded in running ELVis on a Mac with "Catalina"?

yes, works fine here on my Mac running Catalina.


Not sure if it helps, but here is the direct quote (copy/paste) from my ini file, where PSX is installed in the Aerowinx folder within the PSX folder.

# example for Mac / Unix: (comment out Windows entry; then uncomment and edit following line before use!)
/Users/markus/PSX/Aerowinx/Layouts


Note that "Users" is written in upper case (got that path from the terminal shell - by calling pwd from the terminal); all the other Unix and Linux systems I have worked with before had "/users" written in lower case.

Markus
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:18

I'd like to help some more, but don't quite see how...
It's  now clear that you are running a Mac with "Catalina" (not Windows), but I would need more info about

¤ how you start ELVis (clicking on the JAR file? command line?),
¤ what exactly happens (or not), and
¤ what the error messages (if any) say.

- I tried both clicking and Terminal( command line)
- The Layout display appears and an error: cannot find alleged layout folder, please check ini

@Markus: my ini is "/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts" I have my Aerowinx map on my desktop and I copied the path from the info part.

I assume you installed Elvis in one of the previous iOS? Mine was installed for the first time in Catalina, could that be of any significance?
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Markus Vitzethum on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:02
Hello Ton,

actually, I installed Elvis only yesterday evening, well after the Catalina update.

Can you possible post your full ini file, please, just to check if every comment characters and so on are set correctly?

Thanks,
  Markus
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:21
Hi Markus,

Thanks for the info! At least we know that Catalina is not the problem!

my complete ini is:

# This is merely a comment.
# The following line should contain the path to your PSX Layouts folder
# Your path goes here. Don't forget to remove the comment mark # .
# example for Windows (edit before use!):
#X:\Aerowinx\Layouts
# example for Mac / Unix: (comment out Windows entry; then uncomment and edit following line before use!)

#/users/owright/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

# Relative paths are OK, but must be relative to the folder with ELVis in it, not to the PSX folder.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Markus Vitzethum on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:23
Hello Ton,

thanks, that helps.

Can you please remove the hash in this line

#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

because it tells the Elvis program to ignore this line. It's a comment line, then.
It should look like this:

/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

I'm 100% sure it works after the change.

Enjoy,
  Markus
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:24
Aha!
Quote from: Ton
#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

You left the initial "#" sign in, which makes the whole line just another comment which will be disregarded by the program.

Simply delete the "#" (in that one line only!) and then it "should" work...

Many thanks to Markus for jumping in and testing, and with the "proper" result, too ("it works")!  :D

I hope we have nailed it this time.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:29
...and the winner is...
.

.
Markus!

He beat me to it.
Thanks again for the help!

(This is the only forum I know where you can get support in real time from two people, plus the author! :D )

Cheers,
Martin


Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:41
#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

because it tells the Elvis program to ignore this line. It's a comment line, then.
It should look like this:

/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

But the red line is the active.......sorry Martin/Markus  ::)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:36
Quote from: Ton
/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
But the red line is the active.......sorry Martin/Markus 
Uhmm...

But in your INI file as shown in your older post above, all lines start with a # mark, and thus all lines would be comments.

If your entry actually does not have an initial # mark, and is thus indeed active (not a comment), then I am a bit out of my depth.

Could it be that with MacOS, the Desktop folder has some kind of special status, e.g. requires special access permissions?
So that a program (in this case ELVis) cannot access any folder which is under the Desktop folder?
(But that's just a wild guess.)

Cheers,
Martin

 
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 19:53
# This is merely a comment.
# The following line should contain the path to your PSX Layouts folder
# Your path goes here. Don't forget to remove the comment mark # .
# example for Windows (edit before use!):
#X:\Aerowinx\Layouts
# example for Mac / Unix: (comment out Windows entry; then uncomment and edit following line before use!)

#/users/owright/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

# Relative paths are OK, but must be relative to the folder with ELVis in it, not to the PSX folder.

Hi Ton,

lines that start with # are not active.

In your line ...

#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

.. you need to remove the # sign and resave the ini file.


Regards,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 21:46
Ton, if you copied and pasted the file here in the Forum, how can it be that the # appears in front of BOTH lines while you claim it is only in front of the inactive line?

Your whole file should look like this:

Code: [Select]
# This is merely a comment.
# The following line should contain the path to your PSX Layouts folder
# Your path goes here. Don't forget to remove the comment mark # .
# example for Windows (edit before use!):
#X:\Aerowinx\Layouts
# example for Mac / Unix: (comment out Windows entry; then uncomment and edit following line before use!)

#/users/owright/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

# Relative paths are OK, but must be relative to the folder with ELVis in it, not to the PSX folder.

All lines starting with # are, by convention, totally ignored by the ELVis program. You will find this convention in nearly all configuration files for software worldwide.

You are not using a C: drive and a D: drive, are you?


Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 22:36
Hello Ton,

thanks, that helps.

Can you please remove the hash in this line

#/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

because it tells the Elvis program to ignore this line. It's a comment line, then.
It should look like this:

/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

I'm 100% sure it works after the change.

Enjoy,
  Markus

OOooops I made a mistake: to many # but after removing the hash symbol it did not start either.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 12 Nov 2019 23:59
Ton, can you upload your config file here:
http://www.hoppie.nl/forum/
and let us know its URL please?


Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 08:44
Thank Jeroen:

http://www.hoppie.nl/forum/var/ELVis.ini

Is this OK? ::)


hoppie fixes it
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 08:56
The file indeed looks OK. Unless the single line with no space after the # throws off Elivis' accountant.

Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 12:16
Quote from: Hoppie
Unless the single line with no space after the # throws off Elvis' accountant.
No it doesn't.  :D
Even so, perhaps it might be an idea to delete all the comment lines  (those starting with #), just to be sure, and to reduce the INI file and thus the issue to the one line which really counts.

Moreover, in reply #12 (http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5483.msg59096#msg59096) of this thread, Ton reports
Quote from: Ton
- I tried both clicking and Terminal( command line)
- The Layout display appears and an error: cannot find alleged layout folder, please check ini
This proves ELVis is actually running. That error message ("alleged" ! ;D) is in fact coming from ELVis.

What is not clear to me:

¤ Does this really mean the path cannot be found?
     (which means something is really the matter with the line in the INI file)

¤ Or could it also mean the path is fine, but for some reason access is denied ?
     (e.g. because of a special permissions needed for anything under the Desktop directory). *)

(BTW I was also wondering about the encoding of the INI file, e.g. ASCII vs. UTF-8, but as Markus can run the program fine, that seems not to be an issue.)

Cheers,
Martin

*) I'll have to dig out the source code to determine, what condition exactly ELVis is checking for. But even then, behaviour on a Mac might be different from what I see under Windows.


Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 12:31
PS
Another trick perhaps worth trying:

¤ Write into the INI file any path which you definitely know to exist.
     Choose one not under the Desktop directory, just in case.
     (In my case, I tried "C:\Windows".)
     It does not matter if this directory does not have anything to do with PSX!

¤ ELVis will then be able to find that directory and will start and run with no complaint.

¤ When you then try (in ELVis) to load a layout ("Open 9pack" button), ELVis will open that directory, also without complaint, but of course no layout can be found there.

¤ However, you do then still have the option to browse manually from here to the correct Aerowinx/Layouts directory.
(The sole purpose of the INI file is that you don't have to do this manually every time.)

Cheers,
Martin


Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 18:18


¤ Write into the INI file any path which you definitely know to exist.
     Choose one not under the Desktop directory, just in case.
     (In my case, I tried "C:\Windows".)
     It does not matter if this directory does not have anything to do with PSX!
     ¤ ELVis will then be able to find that directory and will start and run with no complaint.

I deleted all the # lines and and my path is the only active in the ini. now. I choose a PXP map ( no relation to Aerowinx or Elvis) on the desktop and ELVIS started but with the same error: can't find the alleged folder, check bla bla

¤ When you then try (in ELVis) to load a layout ("Open 9pack" button), ELVis will open that directory, also without complaint, but of course no layout can be found there.

  In this case no errors, but Elvis hangs/freezes

¤ However, you do then still have the option to browse manually from here to the correct Aerowinx/Layouts directory.
(The sole purpose of the INI file is that you don't have to do this manually every time.)

What we have got:

Not an general Catalina thing: Markus has no problem. Maybe a setup thing at Ton's?

Not a java thing: Ton can start Aerowinx and CMC-PSX: they work flawless

Not A Path thing: Ton's checked by everyone and OK

Maybe a check on the forum who is running Elvis under Catalina?


Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 22:19
Quote from: Ton
I deleted all the # lines and and my path is the only active in the ini. now. I choose a PXP map ( no relation to Aerowinx or Elvis) on the desktop

Please try a path to a directory which is not under the Desktop directory.
I know I am grabbing at straws here, but what can I do...
And I keep thinking the Desktop (and thus its sub-directories) might be something special.

Quote from: Ton
In this case no errors, but Elvis hangs/freezes
Does the directory (your PXP map) not open at all when you click "Open 9pack"?
Or does it open, but then you cannot browse further to other directories?

Otherwise, running out of ideas; this is apparently one for the Mac guys...

Cheers,
Martin

Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: JohnH on Thu, 14 Nov 2019 10:43
perhaps the problem is with macOS Cataline and how it now handles Java? See this article for more info and maybe a solution.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjmoOrawenlAhUNmeAKHRbdCQkQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracle.com%2Ftechnetwork%2Fjava%2Fjavase%2Fusing-jdk-jre-macos-catalina-5781620.html&usg=AOvVaw0SE0prMfKshW9VNLOWFXqE

John

edit: I tried the suggested fix with Security & Privacy however Java is not an option.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Thu, 14 Nov 2019 13:18
Thanks John. Could you Elvis in your setup

Martin, maybe using the JDK could be the origine of the problems?

http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5490.msg59179#msg59179
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Thu, 14 Nov 2019 19:15
Quote from: Tom
maybe using the JDK could be the origin of the problems?
I'm not sure I understand. ELVis will be quite happy both with Java coming from a Java Runtime Environment (JRE) or from a full Java Development Kit (JDK) installation.

But I think in certain circumstances (on Macs?) it was advised to install the full JDK for the benefit of PSX.
And as it seems (your reply #5 above) that you have installed the full JDK anyway, that should not be the problem.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Thu, 14 Nov 2019 22:00
Shall we rest our case than  ;) On this moment I am the only one it must be a "Ton's related Mac problem"  :)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Markus Vitzethum on Fri, 15 Nov 2019 20:55
I refuse to accept defeat here.  :D

If the path to the PSX directory in my Elvis.ini is wrong I get exactly the behavior and the same error message as you get, Ton. So I'm pretty sure that Elvis runs correctly and there is no Java issue.

I would suggest to use the shell = terminal program. Go the Launchpad -> Others -> Terminal

Best, change your directory to the Aerowinx Layouts folder (using the "cd" command) and the enter "pwd" (=print working directory). It would help to see a screenshot of the window of "Terminal" to see how exactly the output of pwd looks like...

Markus
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:13
Best, change your directory to the Aerowinx Layouts folder (using the "cd" command) and the enter "pwd" (=print working directory). It would help to see a screenshot of the window of "Terminal" to see how exactly the output of pwd looks like...

That is too much ;-) can you give me the command lines: cd............  and after that: pwd ........

Thanks for not giving up:-)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 08:55
First
     cd /Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
then simply
    pwd
The second command will show the directory which is currently active (= "which you are currently in").

But keep in mind (my reply #27 (http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5483.msg59143#msg59143) above) that you can put any path into ELVis.ini as long as that path exists, and ELVis will then open that directory (even if it has no layouts in it or has nothing to do at all with PSX).

You have tried it (your reply #28 (http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5483.msg59151#msg59151) above), and reported that ELVis then "hangs/freezes", but we still don't know what exactly happened there.
Does ELVis not open the directory at all? Or does it open it and then hangs?

I am also still wondering if the Desktop directory (and its sub-directories) might need special access permissions. If so, this might explain why it does not work for you but does for Markus (because perhaps he has installed PSX elsewhere but not under the Desktop).  But again, this is just speculation.

Cheers,
Martin

Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 09:23
Quote
Last login: Sat Nov 16 08:17:28 on console
tonvanbochove@MacBook-Pro-van-Ton ~ % cd /Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
tonvanbochove@MacBook-Pro-van-Ton Layouts % pwd
/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
tonvanbochove@MacBook-Pro-van-Ton Layouts %


Thanks Martin, this is the result
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:07
Hmm, that looks correctly like what you have in your ELVis.ini file...

I give up...
The only thing I can now think of is the suggestion made above and earlier already, namely to put some other path into ELVis.ini and then to see what happens.

UPDATE:
We may have found a suspect...

Instead of really giving up as promised, I had another look at my source code, and found something (embarrassing, to me! :-\).

¤ Could it be that in your ELVIs.ini file there is a blank (space) before the path, as indicated here by _:
     _/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

If that is the case, ELVis will not really hang but will pop up the message that he cannot find the folder; but that popup may be hidden behind other windows, and thus create the impression that ELVis has frozen.

If it's really there, please remove that space and try again.
(Note that a space at the end of the line does not matter.)

Let's hope this is the reason...

(Even though it would be a rather stupid mistake on my part. It's not really a bug but bad coding: a leading or trailing space should not matter at all when the path is read in. Probably I was relying, wrongly, on the Operating System(s) to ignore that space, but I did not actually test it... And so far everyone else seems to have avoided any leading spaces in their INI files, so I was never caught out :D)

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 18:29
Another nasty nasty thing in .ini files is the dreaded BOM that you may get with Notepad editors tuned to a foreign language. Typically on Windows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark


Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:02
Hmm, that looks correctly like what you have in your ELVis.ini file...

I give up...
The only thing I can now think of is the suggestion made above and earlier already, namely to put some other path into ELVis.ini and then to see what happens.

UPDATE:
We may have found a suspect...

Instead of really giving up as promised, I had another look at my source code, and found something (embarrassing, to me! :-\).

¤ Could it be that in your ELVIs.ini file there is a blank (space) before the path, as indicated here by _:
     _/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts

If that is the case, ELVis will not really hang but will pop up the message that he cannot find the folder; but that popup may be hidden behind other windows, and thus create the impression that ELVis has frozen.

If it's really there, please remove that space and try again.
(Note that a space at the end of the line does not matter.)

Let's hope this is the reason...

(Even though it would be a rather stupid mistake on my part. It's not really a bug but bad coding: a leading or trailing space should not matter at all when the path is read in. Probably I was relying, wrongly, on the Operating System(s) to ignore that space, but I did not actually test it... And so far everyone else seems to have avoided any leading spaces in their INI files, so I was never caught out :D)

Cheers,
Martin

I wish I could say  AND THE WINNER IS MARTIN ......but sorry, it did not work  :'(
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 03:24
Ton, are you sure you have just one single Elvis program installed? Maybe during the past days you have installed several Elvis copies at different places, and the Elvis ini file you are showing on the forum is perhaps not the ini file you are actually loading when clicking Elvis? I'm just asking to be 100% sure because such things happen to all of us sometimes.


|-|ardy
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 07:26
Yes Hardy I am sure I only have one copy. But I deleted every Elvis on my drive, threw away my Elvis records and started from scratch.....same result
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 07:55
Quote from: Ton
...but sorry, it did not work
But what did not work, and how did it not work?

Here's a "checklist" about what "did not work" might mean here:

A. There is no space before the /Users/....  entry in ELVis.ini ?
     In this case see next post for new ideas of what else could be the problem.

B. As suggested earlier, you tried any other path in ELVis.ini ?
     (a path which has nothing to do with PSX but is definitely known to exist, with full Read/Write access)

B1. ELVis did open the directory to which this path points ?
     In which case you should be able to browse manually to the Layouts folder.

B2. ELVis really did not do or open anything at all and just "froze" without any error message ?
     (make sure not to overlook popups hidden behind other windows).

Stand by for some more in the next post which will be a bit more "technical".

Cheers,
Martin

PS(X) Please do recover your Elvis records from the garbage bin; sacrifices must sometimes be made, but I do not wish to be responsible for going that far! There is a reason why I stick to the correct spelling ELVis (not Elvis) -- precisely to prevent people from blaming the real Elvis or his records, and then throwing them away only because my silly Java program does not work!
:D
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 08:51
It appears that by now my subconscious (if I have one) is also on the case: over night, two more thoughlets hatched, one trivial, one perhaps not (but it's a Mac/Catalina thing, so I cannot say how valid it is.)

1. end-of-line (EOL) markers

Ton had earlier uploaded his ELVis.ini file to Hoppie's website. I had so far viewed it only in the browser, where it looked OK, but now downloaded it for closer examination. In my usual ASCII editor it still looked OK, but that doesn't count because that editor converts some things (e.g. EOL markers) automatically.

But when opened in Notepad, there is a problem: several lines, including the important one, are "fused" :
What should (and must!) be 3 lines
Code: [Select]
...
# example for Mac (...)
#/users/owright/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
...

in Notepad is now 1 line
Code: [Select]
...
# example for Mac (...)#/users/owright/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts/Users/tonvanbochove/Desktop/Aerowinx/Layouts
...

The reason is trivial:
The original ELVis.ini file (as coming in the ZIP archive) was created under Windows, and thus uses the pair CR/LF (0x0D/0x0A) as EOL marker.
But when Ton added his own line on a Mac, only 0x0A is used for EOL, as per Unix standard.
When the resulting file is then transported back into Windows, Notepad (but not my real ASCII editor) does not recognise the critical EOL and thus produces one long line where there should be three.

So far so clear.
But does it really matter? I believe not, but don't know for sure as I don't know the Mac.

¤ If Ton uses a "one-liner", as he did, (just the one active entry, no comment lines), this problem should not exist.

¤ And on a Mac, this "fusing" issue should not exist at all anyway, for both CR/LF and single LF should be OK as EOL markers.
Correct?
Besides, Markus and Hardy seem not to have encountered this issue..

2. Mac / Catalina file system and permissions
Still a pet suspect of mine.

I tried to find a directory on Mac where full user access (Read/Write) is guaranteed, and which could therefore be recommended to be tried in ELVis.ini, instead of /User/<username>/Desktop/... (which I still suspect to be special somehow).
It seems that, as in Unix, there should always be a directory /tmp which I think is a good test case: it's a short and simple path, and I assume (correctly??) that full access here is guaranteed.
So I'd recommend that one for a test.

But in the course of checking this, I also found that Catalina apparently (haven't fully understood/followed up on the details) has introduced some changes in this context which may (or may not) be relevant (and different from standard Unix as I know it):
E.g.
¤ "Catalina introduces a new file system where there is a blend of read-only system files and a read-write user space interleaved on a folder by folder basis." (source (https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/367158/whats-system-volumes-data))
No idea what exactly this means, but it sounds quite ominous...

¤ Apparently people have (in Microsoft/Windows fashion, one might say...) problems to uninstall (https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363209/how-to-delete-pre-installed-apps-on-macos-catalina) certain pre-installed stuff.

¤ And in a list of standard directories (http://osxdaily.com/2007/03/30/mac-os-x-directory-structure-explained/) under Unix/MacOS (Note: this may be older than Catalina), none of the descriptions sounds as if uninhibited access would be guaranteed, e.g. "/usr: Second major hierarchy, includes subdirectories that contain information, configuration files, and other essentials used by the operating system".

If all this is relevant or not for the ELVis (but not Elvis; he lives!) problem, I cannot say.
But for starters, it would be interesting to hear from Markus or Hardy which path they are successfully using in ELVis.

And now I rest myself case!

Have a pleasant Sunday (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED5s1-Fe9FA), everyone*.
Cheers,
Martin

* sorry, couldn't find an Elvis Sunday song, nearest one is this perhaps (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xBnivXp0fA)



 
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 09:08
Quote from: Hoppie
the dreaded BOM
There is that, too...  :-\

What is the standard encoding on Macs with Catalina? Unicode presumably?
The original ELVis.ini file from the distribution does not have a BOM (it was produced with an ASCII editor under an English Windows) .
And Ton's INI file as downloaded does not have any BOMs either, but of course they may have got Lost in Transportation (upload/download/switching OS).

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:06
Quote
Here's a "checklist" about what "did not work" might mean here:

A. There is no space before the /Users/....  entry in ELVis.ini ?
     In this case see next post for new ideas of what else could be the problem.

B. As suggested earlier, you tried any other path in ELVis.ini ?
     (a path which has nothing to do with PSX but is definitely known to exist, with full Read/Write access)

B1. ELVis did open the directory to which this path points ?
     In which case you should be able to browse manually to the Layouts folder.

B2. ELVis really did not do or open anything at all and just "froze" without any error message ?
     (make sure not to overlook popups hidden behind other windows).

Stand by for some more in the next post which will be a bit more "technical".

A There is no space before the line

B Yes but with the same result ....alleged file etc.

B1 No see B2

B2 Yes in a single window


Quote
2. Mac / Catalina file system and permissions
Still a pet suspect of mine.

Catalina could be the culprit......but I can open every program with a Jar. executable except our friend. Others have no problems with ELvis so I would say that is has to do with my particular setup

Quote
What is the standard encoding on Macs with Catalina? Unicode presumably?
The original ELVis.ini file from the distribution does not have a BOM (it was produced with an ASCII editor under an English Windows) .
And Ton's INI file as downloaded does not have any BOMs either, but of course they may have got Lost in Transportation (upload/download/switching OS).

Too techie for me but why don't others suffer with the BOM?

My Catalina update was a straight one without any mods , so what could be wrong???



Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:47

Thanks for the report, Ton!

Quote from: Ton
B Yes but with the same result ....alleged file etc

This means that ELVis cannot find any path/directory at all which exists on your Mac. This must be the core problem. But I have no idea how it can be explained. The fact that you do get the "Cannot find alleged folder" message proves however that ELVis is not really freezing abnormally; it just stops and then exits as per design in this situation.

Quote from: Ton
but I can open every program with a Jar. executable except our friend

Not quite correct: You can open and run ELVis just fine! The problem is that ELVis then cannot find the directory which the ELVis.ini file points to, and therefore the program then exits.
This difference is important, because it means you do not have a problem with Java or running the ELVis.jar file, but "only" with correctly reading the directory from ELVis.ini and then opening it.

Quote from: Ton
Too techie for me but why don't others suffer with the BOM?

Exactly. The BOM is a very unlikely culprit anyway (just grabbing at straws here); as with the other issues, it cannot really be the cause, for others on Mac/Catalina don't have these difficulties. So it must indeed be something special in your setup (but not with Java or JAR files, see above; rather some problem related to the configuration of the Operating System, is my guess).

Quote from: Ton
My Catalina update was a straight one without any mods , so what could be wrong???

Probably nothing is really wrong with your Catalina per se; my guess is it might rather be some configuration or setting item specific to your setup which creates these problems (and which differs from other Macs with Catalina which therefore do not have these difficulties.)

Unfortunately, no new ideas have turned up, not even over night... :(

The last suggestion I have: You could try and create the ELVis.ini file yourself from scratch on your Mac:

¤ Write into it just one line with a path pointing to any existing directory; no comments etc.

¤ Take care to get the upper/lower case spelling of the file name right (ELVis.ini, not elvis.ini or Elvis.ini). I think on the Mac (as in Unix generally) this matters.

¤ Also make sure to use an ASCII editor which does not format the text in any way. In Windows, this would be Notepad. From what I read (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3919553), the equivalent on the Mac is something called TextEdit (comes with the MacOS apparently), but make sure to use the option "Format > Make Plain Text" !

I don't really believe this will solve the issue, but it's all I can think of.

If that fails, too, as expected, we still don't give up: I'll send you a private message with my email address. If you wish, you could then send me your Layout files, and I'd create the ELVis images from them and send them back.

Cheers,
Martin a.k.a. "MacBaffled"
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 09:05
I see two possible problems.

1. The whole .ini file is not read, leading to the missing path. Does ELVis complain if it cannot find the .ini file, or does it default to something?

2. The .ini works but the directory pointed at does not. Wuh?!

This is going to require some experimental Java code, I bet.

Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 09:35
Quote from: Hoppie
Does ELVis complain if it cannot find the .ini file...?
Yes. If ELVis cannot find or read the INI file, it complains with a different popup message and then (after the user has "OK"ed that message) simply exits:
Quote from: ELVis
Some problem with reading your ELVis.ini file.
Please inform author... :-)
Exiting...

If it can find and read the INI file but not the directory it points to, the message is (as seen by Ton)
Quote from: ELVis
Cannot find alleged layout folder:
<path as read from INI file>
Please check your ELVis.ini file!
Exiting...

So it is Wuh?! indeed...

Quote from: Hoppie
This is going to require some experimental Java code, I bet.
...with the added aspect (apart from the usual risk of introducing new interesting bugs) that it would have to be tested (also) on Ton's machine. Might be worth a try though, sort of a minimal Java application which does nothing but read a path from a file and then open the directory. It would almost certainly contain more error and sanity checks than ELVis currently does...

Cheers,
Martin
(who tends to not let go of this kind of thing, not so much because he is a terrier (terra = "Erde"...!) but because of a more general issue: the actual problem might be rather unimportant (poor ELVis not working is not the same as if PSX were not working for Ton...), but these little things are often symptoms of something more serious in the background which, if not fixed, will strike later elsewhere, probably at the least  convenient time, and when something is really important and urgent.)

Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 10:39
Any Java SecurityManager code implemented in ELVis?
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 10:55
Quote from: Hardy
Any Java SecurityManager code implemented in ELVis?
No.
("Security? In Windows? We've heard of it...")

If that is missing but required for Macs, would then the OS not have to issue some warning?

Cheers,
Martin
(now back at the drawing board to make a simple test Java application)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:08
SecurityManager is not required.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:09
... but these little things are often symptoms of something more serious in the background which, if not fixed, will strike later elsewhere, probably at the least  convenient time, and when something is really important and urgent.

Can I hire you? I have a few job openings over here.


Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:38
Greetings...
... to those who are not yet bored by our feeble attempts to resuscitate ELVis.

You can now try your hand with Findini .
(pronounced "finn-DEE-nee", to make it sound like a new kind of noodles, or a breakfast cereal)

Using the latest in Artificial Intelligence, this tiny Java program will
¤ try to find and read a file called tester.ini ,
     which contains an entry pointing to a directory;
¤ try to open aforesaid directory and list its content;
¤ let you select a file
     (nothing will be done with or to it, however)
¤ introduce new fascinating and entertaining bugs,
     in particular of the kind appearing on some computers but not others, across operating systems.

Here is the download link (http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/qun/findini.zip) (8 KB).

Have fun!

Cheers,
Martin
(El Findinero (https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of/finnish-word-nero.html))
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:42
Quote from: Hoppie
Can I hire you? I have a few job openings over here.
But I can't imagine any Management that would hire certified murphologists...

Cheers,
Marvin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:50
They hired me.


Hoppie
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:53
... to those who are not yet bored by our feeble attempts to resuscitate ELVis.

Completely unmodified. Unzip, click on .jar. Windows 10.

Code: [Select]
All went well. OK to exit.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 19 Nov 2019 05:18
Findinee works on my OSX 10.9.5 with Java 12.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Tue, 19 Nov 2019 07:21
Hooray, officially platform-independent!

Thanks, guys!

Cheers,
Martini
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:24
Findinee works on my OSX 10.9.5 with Java 12.

Still working with Maverick, a solid choice ! ;-)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 19 Nov 2019 11:20
Hooray, officially platform-independent!

Thanks, guys!

Cheers,
Martini

Would it help if ELVis, when started the first time, just opens the folder in which ELVis is? The user would then navigate to the desired folder, and ELVis could remember the last navigated folder path and autosave this path in its ini file?


Regards,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:42
Quote from: Hardy
Would it help if...

Yes, clearly that's the way it should be done...

Can't remember why that idea did not come up at the time; probably it fell victim to the KISS* principle.

May be in ELVis version 2, if one is ever demanded loudly enough (ha!).
(As it is, Marketing has pulled a great stunt already, blowing up the semi-problem of one case up to an Internet presence of so far no less than 62 replies in this thread...  ;D )

Cheers,
Marv1in

*perhaps not so much a case of Keep It Simple Son
  but rather of Knowledge Is Sadly Superficial.
  Or maybe I just got bogged down too much by trying to get a handle on the Layout Managers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJR9lmjqQo)...
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:10
The joy of problem solving is the motor of life. Even love stories are about problem solving. The more unusual the challenge, the greater the attraction ...


|-|
Title: Re: Elvis v2 needs no glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:26
Quote from: Hardy
Would it help if ELVis...
Quote from: Jeeves
We endeavour to give satisfaction.

Having applied Evolutionary (as opposed to Artificial) Intelligence, we can now present ELVis v.2 (a.k.a. "Son of ELVis", (c) Brian) for your downloading pleasure (http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/elvis/PSX_ELVis_v2.zip).

The actual "functionality" (making pretty pictures) is exactly the same as before, but there is no more ELVis.ini file to manage.
(There is now a file elvis.cfg, but that needs not, and ought not to, ever be touched by the user.)

Thus, if you're already happy with the INI file of v.1, no need to update.

Otherwise: Details in the updated documentation (http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/elvis/!_ReadMe.html) and the (identical) ReadMe file included in the ZIP archive.

Have fun v.2!
(As the change is about folders/directories, and thus OS-related,  I am sure enticing new bugs will be discovered.)

Cheers,
Marv2in
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:45
It works! :-)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:48
Quote from: Hardy
The joy of problem solving is the motor of life.
.................(http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/elvis/square.png)
Make a circle (disc) of the same area. Brrrrm, brrrrmmm..  :D

Cheers,
mOrtin
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:05
137 * 137 = 18769
18769 = pi * r * r
d = sqrt( 18769 / pi ) * 2

Go to Photoshop and enter the diameter 154.59 for a fixed circle mask and fill it orange :-)


[-]ardy
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: Markus Vitzethum on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:30
137 units

Why not 137.035999046?

Markus

p.s.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant)
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:38
Quote from: Hardy
diameter 154.59
That gave me a circle with area 18769.50 units^2...
Too big.  >:(

M.
Title: Re: Elvis needs glasses
Post by: martin on Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:46
Quote from: Markus
Why not 137.035999046?
To avoid the conspiracy specialists accusing me of being a crypto-satanist after they read the number upside down...
(Rev.13,18 (https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5415379))
W.

ELVis now officially got out of hand
Three and half a score of replies and counting...
(...and I am looking forward to the spectacle of our esteemed Moderator kicking himself, among us all, into the Pit.)  ;D
Title: Re: Elvis v2 needs no glasses
Post by: Ton van Bochove on Fri, 22 Nov 2019 08:49

Having applied Evolutionary (as opposed to Artificial) Intelligence, we can now present ELVis v.2 (a.k.a. "Son of ELVis", (c) Brian) for your downloading pleasure (http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/elvis/PSX_ELVis_v2.zip).

Otherwise: Details in the updated documentation (http://www.saunalahti.fi/erdel/elvis/!_ReadMe.html) and the (identical) ReadMe file included in the ZIP archive.

Have fun v.2!
(As the change is about folders/directories, and thus OS-related,  I am sure enticing new bugs will be discovered.)

Cheers,
Marv2in

For all the people who have problem with ELVis in OS Catalina: Martin gave us an early Xmas present ELVis v. 2 ( see the above link) It works without problems!