744 Forum

Apron => Hangar 7 => Topic started by: Toga on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 10:36

Title: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 10:36
Just wondered if this is an issue with my set up or something introduced in a new update.

I'm running psx natively on an i7 and 1080 on one comp. I used to have 72 fps solid, now its dropped to 67 and doesn't feel as smooth as it once was? Any ideas?

Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 10:51
My frame rate has never dropped during in the past 1000 updates.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:00
Ok thanks, must be a problem my end.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:28
What could possibly be the reason for the recent drop in frames? Nor the CPU or GPU is really being tested. It just stays at 67 FPS.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:35
Microsoft Windows sometimes limits it to 68 FPS.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:38
Ah! That may be it as it doesn't move from 67 even when i disable the windshield etc. Is there a way to disable the windows limit?
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:48
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:35
Microsoft Windows sometimes limits it to 68 FPS.

I think I meant to say that OS X may limit it to 68 FPS. It's been some years when I tested a Windows machine the last time. My current iMac with OS X 10.9.5 limits it to 68 FPS. I got 71 FPS on older Macs. I can't see any difference between 68 and 71 anyway.

Maybe it's not the OS but Java 1.7 and higher.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:57
Is anyone managing 72 FPS with the latest version of java and win 10?
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Panos Bilios on Thu, 11 Oct 2018 19:00
Hi guys

In my I7 4790 gt650 card , running PSX
in one machine no addons no network
I always get 72 fps and sometimes very briefly
goes to 68 especially when panning around the cockpit.

Panos
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:50
Are you running the latest win 10 and latest java?
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: asboyd on Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:36
I am getting 70 FPS with windshield deactivated on an AMD FX6300 3.5Ghz with 16Gb DDR3 mem and a GTX660 2Gb video card...
With windshield active I drop 1 FPS to 69 during a flight....
I have the latest Win10 updates and the latest Java 1.8.0 181 updates.
I had too many issues with Java 10 to keep using it.

Alex B
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:37
I have the same java and don't understand why it suddenly stays at 67. I know it's trivial but i can't understand what is dropping it from what once was 72 constantly.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Panos Bilios on Fri, 12 Oct 2018 18:08
I have java 1.70_60 and
windows 7 64bit

Panos
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: asboyd on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 00:34
Have you tried opening task manager and checking the CPU and memory usage?
Look for windows compatibility task as that collects info and sends it back to Microsoft when you are running programs.
I have disabled the task (it reactivates itself after every windows 10 update so you need to stay on top of it.)
Cheers,
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:13
yeah my CPU and GPU are only running at about 15%. No explanation, just 67 fps for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: asboyd on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 23:23
Have you updated the driver for the video card lately.
I had a period when I had issues with all graphics on my machine but the latest update seems to have settled them down. (I use a lot of cad programs as well as some gaming :) )
Cheers,
Alex B
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:40
Quote from: asboyd on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 23:23
Have you updated the driver for the video card lately.
I had a period when I had issues with all graphics on my machine but the latest update seems to have settled them down. (I use a lot of cad programs as well as some gaming :) )
Cheers,
Alex B

Interestingly, I've personally experienced the opposite problem - a favoably reviewed new video card driver completely wrecked my PC Windows installation and it then took me a several days to rescue and restore my PC.  I then refused to install new video drivers for about a year! 

YMMV.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: asboyd on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:14
Currently I am using Nvidia 416.34 with no issues....

Cheers,
AlexB
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:09
I have updated all drivers and software etc. The only thing I have changed is the hdmi cable...
I know this is all trivial, I just can't understand what's causing it.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: evaamo on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:47
I'm using Windows 10 (build 1803) with Java 1.8.0-181  and I am also "capped" at 67-68fps.

I have an i7 6700k Overclocked to 4.6Ghz, 32 GB of RAM and an Nvidia 1080ti at 4k.

For some strange reason, I used to get 72fps as well, but now I'm stuck at 68fps as well. PSX's fluid as it's always been though.

cheers
-E
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: asboyd on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:47
Maybe it's the 1080 that is reporting the wrong rates (something in the GPU and firmware maybe). My son is O/S at present so cannot get hold of his 1080 to try it out.

Cheers,
Alex B
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: evaamo on Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:09
Hi, Alex. Don't know about that... I haven't changed my hardware setup in 1 1/2 years, so I doubt the fps "loss" is related to a device or hardware configuration change. I even tried modifying my settings in the Nvidia panel to see if there's any chance - there isn't -  since Java uses the GPU's  "acceleration" to draw its graphics, regardless of you using OpenGL or not (in PSX's case it's Java2D).

Anyhow... 68fps in 4k is A LOT more than the 25fps I get using the FSLabs A320 in P3Dv4.  ;D

cheers
-E
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:56
Quote from: asboyd on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:47
Maybe it's the 1080 that is reporting the wrong rates ...

The FPS indication in PSX is in the PSX code and indicates the truth. It's just a counter that is reset every 1000 ms. PSX's milliseconds stream comes from the PC's system clock.

The high speed thread in PSX is started whenever the last thread is finished and at least 14 ms have passed since the last start.


Cheers,

|-|ardy
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Phil Bunch on Fri, 19 Oct 2018 02:52
Quote from: Toga on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:09
I have updated all drivers and software etc. The only thing I have changed is the hdmi cable...
I know this is all trivial, I just can't understand what's causing it.

Perhaps you've identified something that is important in this context. 

The HDMI cables come in various versions, helping to manage copyrights, encryption, etc of the digital video stream.  My limited understanding is that an HDCP cable, used in an HDMI interface, is *not* a simple passive collection of copper wires but is instead an active electronic device.  There are several different versions of this cable design, each version probably having different internal electronics. 

Therefore I wonder if changing the video cable as you mentioned in your post might cause frame rate and other issues.  Maybe max frame rates require the latest version of the HDCP cable with at least some video cards under at least some circumstances.


Just a thought/suggestion.

I found the Wikipedia entry for HDCP cables to be a little helpful here. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: asboyd on Fri, 19 Oct 2018 04:52
HDMI differences only come into effect if the cable run is longer than 2 metres. It is a bit like data network cables Cat 5 and Cat 6 only make a difference over long runs and at different rates. Most V1.2 V1.3 cables will carry 4K OK, also based on Hardy's email the frame rate is calculated before it leaves the video card.

Cheers,
AlexB
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Toga on Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:30
I've changed hdmi cables and it didnt't make any difference. All i can think of is a win 10 update or gpu driver update that's causing it as once upon a time it said 72.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: frenia on Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:50
Hello,

I have the exact same issue.  I left a question about it previously.  I used to get 72 FPS, then it dropped to 67 and stays fixed there.  Running Windows 10.  No big deal, just happened one day.


Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:21
I think it's a feature in Java's economically optimized multitasking system.

PSX sets the time frame length to 14 ms. So the exact limit is 71.43 Hz, not 72.00 Hz. I guess in such busy time loops Java rather likes to add a fraction of a millisecond than to subtract it. E.g. with 14.7 ms the rate is 68 Hz. And that's just a difference of 700 nanoseconds.

I just tested it with 1 ms instead of 14 ms. Now I get 80 fps in takeoff position in full screen, and over 500 fps when reduced to 300 x 300 pixels. So it's clearly just a relative round-up effect in that 14 ms multitask "sleep" management, and not an absolute hard limit. I don't think a higher rate would make any sense aside from generating more heat in the box, and drawing power from other programs.

As far as I recall, the real EFIS screens get their high speed data updates via the ARINC busses at 50 Hz.


Regards,

|-|ardy


P.S.: When I set 13 ms, which corresponds to 76.92 Hz, I get max 73 FPS. Is anyone keen on that additional boost? I'm seeing no difference on the monitor.
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Tue, 23 Oct 2018 00:24
Config option! Config option!

And then we will find a way to bypass your articifial arbitraty minimum and overclock PSX like real flight sim enthusiasts   :-D


Hoppie
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Will on Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:24
I'll upgrade my Mac to one of those water-cooled gaming rigs that looks like the creature's head from Alien...
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:57
48 and 72 fps frame rate limits are now re-tuned so that they won't be blocked at 47 and 69 fps -- in PSX 10.50:

http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4191.0


|-|ardy
Title: Re: Frame rate limits?
Post by: Britjet on Tue, 30 Oct 2018 18:51
Thanks Hardy - a solid 72 for me now!
Peter.