Good morning,
on the Instructor weather pages we have the option to copy & paste an entire METAR text of an external source directly into the edit field of a local weather zone in PSX. The parameters inside the simulation will then slowly change to the injected data.
I'm thinking of a similar copy & paste feature for aloft wind & OAT data. Of course, there are public NOAA services where huge GRIB files can be downloaded. But every download means additional stress to the servers, and every partial GRIB data extraction requires CPU power. In our scenario, however, we just want our simulation to agree with our flight plan data. That's all. So why building a huge additional resource when the resource already exists in our flight plan in human readable form?
There are various flight plan programs, like PSX.Net.Dispatch, or PFPX etc.
The user may mark the weather related text parts in the flight plan, and copy & paste it into a special edit field in PSX. PSX will then parse the text and process the data. The parser just needs to detect what flight plan format has been pasted.
So my question is: Could someone post a sample of a copied & pasted text block where wind & OAT at a route waypoint is indicated, and which flight plan program has generated this text?
By the way, copy & paste in PSX also works with the mouse: Just drag any marked text into an edit field in PSX, or vice versa from PSX off to an external program.
Regards,
|-|ardy
Hardy,
PFPX has the capability to reproduce many different real world OFP formats ... as a long time beta tester of the software I am going to give you the three examples of wind data output here - I do not know if this will cause you issues but 'forewarned is forearmed' as they say.
I hope this helps.
Format One:
(https://i.imgur.com/6VvZFBhl.png?1)
Format Two:
(https://i.imgur.com/mDObNjTl.png?1)
Format Three:
(https://i.imgur.com/SKEFpo5l.png?1)
Thanks, Steve.
The NOAA data is public domain, so I don't think there can be any issues. Also, I won't implement any formats; I just want to provide a paste edit field like any other text editor does.
Cheers,
|-|ardy
Edit: Steve, does "copy & paste" work with these texts? I need the plain text, not the screenshot. The forum software provides "code" tags for ASCII formatting.
Steve,
just generated on PFPX as well and the OFP shows, for a cruise FL 380:
WIND INFORMATION - OBS 25/JUL 00:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CLIMB) OGERO (DESCENT)
FL370 256/076 -49 FL420 262/073 -56 FL370 268/072 -49
FL300 256/038 -36 FL400 261/078 -54 FL300 267/029 -37
FL220 249/018 -17 FL380 261/078 -50 FL220 264/019 -17
FL150 247/011 -1 FL360 260/070 -47 FL150 251/012 -2
7000 305/001 +13 FL340 260/060 -43 7000 189/007 +15
How can I generate the other formats ?
Edit HH: Quote in code format
Good morning, Hardy,
I use PFPX for flight planning, and recall looking into this question a few years ago. IIRC (possibly) I found that the default format for a PFPX flight plan gives you only the variation from ISA — for example M05 (minus) or P05 (plus). I have therefore been using a different template, that I think I downloaded from somewhere or other on the 'net.
But my point is that since the PFPX flight plan format is configurable by means of user-adjustable templates, I would imagine that it should also be possible to come up with a format specifically to suit the needs of PSX, if required. The new format could then simplify the required copy and paste operation, once you have established the data fields you wish to be filled.
(There is a whole separate manual for PFPX template formatting, which is downloadable from http://forum.aerosoft.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=97834).
Cheers,
Brian
Thanks, jcomm. How is this format called? Does it have a name?
Thanks, Brian, for the tips!
Cheers,
|-|ardy
Quote from: brian747 on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:50
But my point is that since the PFPX flight plan format is configurable by means of user-adjustable templates, I would imagine that it should also be possible to come up with a format specifically to suit the needs of PSX, if required. The new format could then simplify the required copy and paste operation, once you have established the data fields you wish to be filled.
Brian,
Without sounding churlish .... this would render the hundreds of hours (literally) that others - some of whom are regular contributors to this forum (including me) have spent building relationships of trust with professionals in the aviation industry in order to access the very sensitive subject of real world flight operational data, once that is established we have & still are then able to reproduce operational flight plan templates for 'simmers' to use with programmes like PFPX in order to make their experience evern more realistic.
But lets just bin that idea shall we?
Hardy,
I am just opening up my PFPX computer ... I will have the PFPX syntax for you shortly.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:51
How is this format called? Does it have a name?
|-|ardy
This is just a copy/paste of the "WIND INFORMATION" section from a PFPX OFP for an LPPT-LEMD flight.
Further info is available in the Flightplan, at the various waypoints in the form "ISA WND/SPD", like:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AWY WAYPOINT MT ALT MSA FREQ TAS LEG FUEL REM / USED LEG ACC
-FIR NAME ISA WND/SPD GS REM POSITION ETO / ATO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LPPT/35 374 031 19.5 / 0.5
LISBON 338 N3845.9 W00907.9 ...../.....
IDBI2N PT412 063 *CLB 031 9 17.8 / 2.4 04 00.04
P14 298/004 329 N3849.9 W00858.8 ...../.....
Hardy,
Close PFPX down.
Create a new .txt file on your desktop & save it as TEXT.txt
Inside it paste the following information contained inside but not inclusive of the dashed lines:
-----------------------------------
<&WindDataBlock_Begin>
<&WindData[0]:65>
<&WindDataBlock_End>
WindData[0]
<&WindData[0]:65>
WindData[1]
<&WindData[1]:65>
WindData[2]
<&WindData[2]:65>
WindData[3]
<&WindData[3]:65>
-----------------------------------
Save this file & then cut & paste it into the root folder of your PFPX installation as follows:
C:\Users\Public\Documents\PFPX Data\FlightplanTemplates
You can then re boot PFPX & once you have 'planned' a flight & arrived at the results page you can select the TEST option from the Flight Plan (OFP) box & it will show you the various outputs.
The output altitudes are very much 'driven' by the user entered altitudes manually entered during the actual 'data entry' part of the process or alternatively they are automatically calculated by PFPX using a combination of the aircraft performance file & the manually entered payload, alternate details, fuel policy & EROPS policy if one is utilised.
I have asked the developer for a 'default' wind data block output as used in real life buy a commercial flight planning source (Brian take note) but I have not yet heard back from the developer.
Hardy-
As this topic is finally being discussed I wanted to interject that for me it is important that PSX NOT INJECT FROM A STATIC SOURCE. By that I mean that the difference between PFPX's PREDICTED winds aloft/Wx and the ACTUAL winds aloft/Wx are important (to me).
It is more realistic (for me) to have the "snapshot" that PFPX generates, and then watch the Wx/winds as the populate IN REAL TIME FROM REAL TIME METAR DATA. THAT IS KEY- REAL WINDS AND TEMPS ALOFT so that PFPX data is the beginning and RW evolution follows as the hours tick away.
The DIFFERENCES, some small, some NOT SO SMALL; add in no small amount to the experience of Real Flight Simulation.
One thought- no more.
Best- C
Hi Hardy,
Please find an another exemple from Simbrief flight plan in LIDO format
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WIND INFORMATION
----------------
CLIMB T O C WKE30 YOROI
350 357/031 -40 330 338/027 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34
310 352/024 -29 310 329/023 -29 310 313/026 -29 310 313/026 -29
200 348/023 -06 290 322/022 -25 290 306/025 -24 290 306/025 -24
150 358/023 +03 270 318/022 -20 270 303/026 -20 270 303/026 -20
100 350/011 +11 250 314/023 -15 250 300/027 -15 250 300/027 -15
KABTO DASSY WKE LUMIN
330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 308/032 -34
310 313/026 -29 310 313/026 -29 310 313/026 -29 310 300/030 -29
290 306/025 -24 290 306/025 -24 290 306/025 -24 290 295/030 -24
270 303/026 -20 270 303/026 -20 270 303/026 -20 270 292/030 -20
250 300/027 -15 250 300/027 -15 250 300/027 -15 250 290/030 -15
LIKON DITOR ULMIK SOKMU
330 293/038 -34 330 289/046 -35 330 279/056 -35 330 276/067 -35
310 290/035 -29 310 285/041 -30 310 275/052 -30 310 273/062 -30
290 288/034 -25 290 282/038 -25 290 272/048 -25 290 270/058 -25
270 287/033 -20 270 280/037 -20 270 272/044 -20 270 266/054 -21
250 285/032 -16 250 279/036 -16 250 271/040 -16 250 262/050 -16
Thanks
Bastien
Hardy,
In light of the fact that there are variations in format could the solution be to opt for the GRIB download?
To the best of my knowledge the Wind Uplink Data available to many operators is only updated every six hours during the 24hr cycle.
I am therefore visualising one initial download on PSX start up - from which users could initialise their wind data 'uplink' into the FMS taken from the most recent of the PSX automatic downloads - see below:
Then further PSX automatic downloads occur at the 0001z, 0600z, 1200z & 1800z timings (I dont know if this eases the load on severs etc) which the user then could 'uplink' if they require should their flight duration continue into those periods.
Just a thought.
This way you can pick your format ... perhaps like this one in use by a large flight plan provider today ....
Regardless of flight profile flown this information is always produced for all ofps in the following format:
(https://i.imgur.com/pHQEO1Il.png?1)
I wonder if the raw GRIB data can be extrapolated to create something like it?
Quote from: G-CIVA on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:24
Hardy,
Close PFPX down.
I don't have PFPX.
I'm just looking for text snippets of various flight plan formats to train my parser. No GRIB, no binary, no hacking ...
Bastien, thank you. That's the stuff that I mean :-)
Carl, a little randomization might be possible.
Quote from: G-CIVA on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:19
Hardy,
In light of the fact that there are variations in format could the solution be to opt for the GRIB download?
No, I'm sorry. See initial post.
Hardy,
Okay apologies, I must have misunderstood ...
Here are the three PFPX formats ......
(CLIMB) NICHO NOSHO
FL310 161/021 -45 FL360 121/017 -52 FL360 045/019 -50
FL250 148/016 -31 FL340 126/020 -52 FL340 056/019 -51
FL190 145/015 -18 FL320 127/019 -48 FL320 056/019 -47
12000 147/013 -5 FL300 128/018 -43 FL300 056/019 -42
6000 139/011 +5 FL280 125/018 -39 FL280 059/019 -38
NANZA NOLTI NULUK
FL360 010/038 -49 FL360 359/061 -48 FL360 345/049 -48
FL340 014/036 -50 FL340 001/060 -48 FL340 346/050 -46
FL320 013/038 -46 FL320 001/052 -45 FL320 347/046 -42
FL300 013/039 -42 FL300 002/043 -41 FL300 348/042 -37
FL280 014/033 -37 FL280 003/040 -36 FL280 348/038 -33
NATES NIKLL NIPPI
FL370 314/032 -53 FL370 256/027 -53 FL400 307/037 -54
FL350 311/027 -47 FL350 250/026 -47 FL380 309/038 -51
FL330 305/022 -42 FL330 245/025 -41 FL360 305/036 -47
FL310 290/018 -37 FL310 242/025 -36 FL340 300/034 -42
FL290 279/017 -33 FL290 241/025 -31 FL320 289/031 -37
NOGAL NUBDA ALICE
FL400 359/030 -54 FL400 047/042 -54 FL400 041/049 -54
FL380 002/029 -50 FL380 049/044 -50 FL380 043/049 -49
FL360 004/028 -45 FL360 049/043 -45 FL360 043/047 -44
FL340 007/028 -39 FL340 049/042 -39 FL340 044/045 -38
FL320 000/020 -34 FL320 050/037 -34 FL320 041/042 -34
HPE GTC NESKO
FL400 032/050 -54 FL400 028/048 -54 FL400 029/036 -54
FL380 032/049 -49 FL380 027/047 -49 FL380 027/036 -49
FL360 032/046 -44 FL360 026/044 -44 FL360 026/036 -43
FL340 032/043 -38 FL340 025/040 -38 FL340 025/036 -38
FL320 030/040 -33 FL320 025/038 -33 FL320 025/037 -33
SAMON SAPRA (DESCENT)
FL400 047/023 -54 FL400 111/017 -54 FL350 157/020 -41
FL380 046/023 -49 FL380 113/016 -49 FL280 170/013 -23
FL360 044/025 -44 FL360 114/016 -44 FL210 190/010 -7
FL340 041/027 -38 FL340 114/015 -39 14000 204/010 +5
FL320 036/029 -33 FL320 110/013 -34 7000 223/012 +17
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
24000 30000 34000 36000 38000 41000
PANC 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
TED 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
NODLE 15015M28 16020M43 17022M52 16020M52 16017M53 16012M51
NICHO 12016M29 13018M43 13020M52 12017M52 11014M51 10010M50
NOSHO 06019M28 06019M42 06019M51 05019M50 04020M49 03021M49
NEONN 04017M28 04019M43 03019M50 03022M49 02025M49 02028M48
NANZA 02020M28 01039M42 01036M50 01038M49 01040M48 01040M48
NOLTI 00033M26 00043M41 00060M48 36061M48 36061M47 36053M49
NAYLD 36031M25 36045M39 35060M47 35059M48 35058M48 35050M50
NULUK 35027M24 35042M37 35050M46 35049M48 34048M49 34041M51
NANDY 33028M22 35034M36 34033M46 34030M49 33028M51 33022M54
NATES 27017M21 28017M35 31025M45 31030M50 31035M55 31023M57
NIKLL 24024M20 24025M33 25025M44 25026M50 26028M56 26023M58
NYMPH 24030M20 23031M33 23032M44 24033M50 24033M56 24028M58
NUZAN 22046M20 22054M34 22065M44 22066M50 23067M55 24050M57
NRKEY 24039M20 27031M33 30034M43 30035M47 30036M52 29035M55
NIPPI 25037M19 28029M33 30034M42 31036M47 31038M51 30036M55
NOGAL 29011M15 34013M29 01028M39 00028M45 00029M50 36030M56
NUBDA 04018M14 05031M28 05042M39 05043M45 05044M50 04042M56
NANNO 05022M15 05034M28 05045M39 05046M45 05046M50 05045M56
ALICE 03032M14 04039M28 04045M38 04047M44 04049M49 04049M56
LIDEL 03034M14 04039M28 04045M38 04047M44 04049M49 04050M56
MQE 03035M14 03040M28 04045M38 04048M44 04050M49 03051M56
HPE 03034M14 03038M28 03043M38 03046M44 03049M49 03051M56
HANKA 03034M14 03037M28 03043M38 03046M44 03049M49 03051M56
MAMRO 03033M14 03037M28 03042M38 03045M44 03048M49 03050M56
GTC 03031M15 02034M28 03040M38 03044M44 03047M49 03049M56
NESKO 02028M14 03038M27 03036M38 03036M43 03036M49 03036M56
SAMON 03026M13 03030M28 04027M38 04025M44 05023M49 05023M57
DRIPS 03024M13 04027M28 05025M38 05023M44 06021M49 06021M56
SAPRA 08009M13 10012M28 11015M39 11016M44 11016M49 11017M56
BULGA 10007M13 13014M28 14015M39 13016M44 13017M49 12018M56
KPO 12006M13 13014M28 14015M39 14017M44 13018M49 13018M56
ELAPI 15006M13 15013M28 15014M39 15016M44 15018M49 14017M56
CUN 18007M13 16012M28 16014M39 16017M44 15019M49 15017M56
BIGOB 18008M13 16013M28 16014M39 16017M44 16019M49 15017M56
BASEM 19009M13 17013M28 16014M39 16017M44 16020M49 16017M56
GUKDO 19010M13 18015M28 17016M39 17018M44 17021M49 16017M56
KAKSO 20011M13 18017M28 17017M39 17019M44 17021M49 16017M56
SI857 20012M13 19018M28 17018M39 17020M44 17022M49 17017M56
SI921 20012M13 19019M28 17018M39 17020M44 17022M49 17018M56
SI922 20012M13 18019M28 17018M39 17020M44 17022M49 17018M56
SI923 20012M13 18018M28 17018M39 17020M44 17022M49 16018M56
SI924 20012M13 18018M28 17018M39 17020M44 17022M49 16018M56
SI925 19012M13 18019M28 17018M39 17020M44 17023M49 16018M56
PULUN 20013M13 18021M28 17021M39 17023M44 17024M49 17019M56
RKSI 20015M13 19023M28 18024M39 18024M44 18025M49 17019M56
N6110.3W14959.9 PANC 102 1 P16
N6110.0W14957.6 TED 278 59 P11 17020 18021 18023 18025
N6117.0W15200.0 NODLE 271 116 M24 16018 16020 16021 17022
N6115.0W15600.0 NICHO 271 203 320 M48 13018 13018 13019 13020
N6107.0W16300.0 NOSHO 254 61 320 M47 06019 06019 06019 06019
N6049.3W16500.6 NEONN 252 95 320 M47 04018 04019 04019 03019
N6018.4W16802.5 NANZA 250 125 320 M46 01033 01039 01038 01036
N5932.7W17154.1 NOLTI 248 77 320 M45 00040 00043 00052 00060
N5903.1W17412.4 NAYLD 247 99 320 M43 36041 36045 36053 35060
N5822.9W17706.1 NULUK 245 201 320 M42 35038 35042 35046 35050
290 310 330 350
N5649.9E17720.8 NANDY 240 214 M41 35033 35034 34033 34032
N5456.0E17158.4 NATES 235 120 330 M42 28017 29018 30022 31027
N5344.7E16913.9 NIKLL 241 41 330 M41 24025 24025 25025 25026
N5324.5E16814.3 NYMPH 240 198 330 M41 23031 23031 23032 24032
300 320 340 360
N5139.4E16338.6 NUZAN 236 151 M42 22054 22060 22065 22066
320 340 360 380
N5012.4E16022.6 NRKEY 234 50 M43 28032 30034 30035 30036
N4942.6E15920.8 NIPPI 233 330 360 M47 29031 30034 31036 31038
N4613.0E15300.2 NOGAL 228 331 360 M45 00020 01028 00028 00029
N4223.4E14728.5 NUBDA 224 40 360 M45 05037 05042 05043 05044
N4154.9E14651.5 NANNO 246 163 360 M45 05040 05045 05046 05046
N4044.7E14335.8 ALICE 236 21 360 M44 04042 04045 04047 04049
N4032.5E14312.6 LIDEL 235 71 360 M44 04043 04045 04047 04049
N3951.9E14157.0 MQE 236 46 360 M44 04043 04045 04048 04050
N3926.0E14108.0 HPE 227 36 360 M44 03040 03043 03046 03049
N3901.0E14033.6 HANKA 228 17 360 M44 03040 03043 03046 03049
N3850.0E14017.8 MAMRO 227 77 360 M44 03040 03042 03045 03048
N3757.4E13906.8 GTC 246 125 360 M44 03038 03040 03044 03047
N3705.9E13643.2 NESKO 245 119 360 M43 03037 03036 03036 03036
N3614.5E13430.1 SAMON 238 38 360 M44 04029 04027 04025 05023
N3554.5E13350.1 DRIPS 269 152 360 M44 04026 05025 05023 06021
N3549.4E13043.4 SAPRA 279 44 360 M44 11013 11015 11016 11016
N3556.1E12949.3 BULGA 278 17 360 M44 13015 14015 13016 13017
N3558.6E12928.4 KPO 306 37 360 M44 14014 14015 14017 13018
N3620.2E12850.8 ELAPI 305 31 360 M44 15013 15014 15016 15018
DESC FL 90 180 310 360
WIND 21010 20007 18016 17019
Hardy plse disregard this next piece.
Just in case anybody is even thinking of suggesting the use of another 'popular' simulator developers .WX file that PFPX can produce - here is the .WX that was parsed from the EXACT same wind predictions I have posted from the same ofp I used to create the formats above:
PANC 132@005(+6) 149@012(+0) 152@016(-5) 152@020(-15) 160@020(-28)
165@020(-42) 160@024(-52) 161@016(-54) 171@008(-50) 160@004(-50)
TED 132@005(+6) 149@012(+0) 152@016(-5) 153@020(-15) 159@020(-28)
166@020(-42) 160@024(-52) 162@016(-54) 171@008(-50) 160@004(-50)
NODLE 145@013(+6) 148@014(+1) 147@014(-5) 140@013(-15) 145@014(-28)
154@020(-43) 144@023(-52) 141@014(-53) 142@007(-50) 117@004(-50)
NICHO 072@005(+6) 100@008(+1) 114@011(-5) 129@016(-15) 121@019(-29)
118@022(-43) 106@025(-51) 106@014(-51) 073@007(-49) 057@007(-49)
NOSHO 065@012(+6) 079@014(+1) 074@015(-5) 051@015(-15) 064@017(-28)
063@018(-43) 066@016(-51) 034@020(-49) 025@022(-48) 025@020(-49)
NEONN 065@010(+5) 080@012(+1) 070@013(-5) 042@015(-15) 041@016(-28)
045@016(-43) 037@017(-51) 021@026(-48) 018@029(-48) 020@024(-49)
NANZA 076@006(+5) 069@007(+1) 050@008(-4) 024@013(-14) 020@018(-28)
016@037(-42) 015@040(-50) 009@040(-47) 009@040(-48) 013@031(-50)
NOLTI 010@004(+5) 015@009(+2) 013@012(-3) 009@018(-13) 007@031(-26)
004@037(-41) 001@047(-49) 359@058(-46) 001@046(-50) 006@034(-52)
NAYLD 342@005(+5) 003@008(+2) 005@014(-2) 004@026(-12) 002@035(-25)
358@043(-40) 358@062(-46) 355@058(-47) 356@043(-51) 002@031(-53)
NULUK 316@003(+6) 350@009(+4) 352@015(-0) 352@025(-11) 351@033(-24)
351@048(-38) 353@054(-46) 348@047(-48) 349@035(-53) 356@026(-54)
NANDY 307@015(+10) 318@020(+6) 322@022(+1) 328@025(-9) 339@028(-23)
354@028(-37) 353@030(-45) 347@025(-51) 341@016(-55) 358@012(-57)
NATES 277@023(+12) 280@022(+8) 281@022(+2) 282@024(-9) 289@019(-21)
306@020(-35) 315@026(-45) 318@031(-56) 305@008(-57) 334@002(-58)
NIKLL 238@024(+12) 239@025(+8) 238@025(+2) 236@024(-9) 251@019(-20)
262@016(-34) 284@021(-44) 282@026(-57) 264@014(-59) 251@005(-59)
NYMPH 230@027(+12) 229@028(+8) 228@028(+2) 226@027(-9) 239@023(-20)
247@019(-33) 266@023(-44) 267@027(-57) 249@016(-59) 239@008(-59)
NUZAN 211@044(+11) 216@047(+6) 219@047(+1) 221@045(-8) 216@045(-20)
212@050(-34) 211@058(-44) 225@060(-57) 232@032(-58) 239@015(-58)
NRKEY 213@046(+11) 217@047(+7) 220@048(+2) 223@048(-8) 223@046(-20)
222@039(-34) 234@037(-44) 243@042(-55) 261@029(-56) 273@017(-58)
NIPPI 214@045(+11) 217@047(+7) 220@047(+2) 223@045(-8) 226@042(-20)
231@036(-34) 242@036(-43) 258@035(-53) 277@029(-56) 287@018(-58)
NOGAL 199@026(+12) 203@027(+10) 207@024(+5) 219@016(-4) 294@013(-16)
359@019(-30) 005@040(-39) 003@037(-52) 351@033(-60) 352@023(-62)
NUBDA 025@008(+13) 031@008(+11) 041@009(+7) 056@011(-3) 035@024(-15)
046@038(-28) 040@051(-39) 039@052(-52) 030@045(-61) 035@032(-64)
NANNO 025@010(+14) 028@011(+11) 037@012(+7) 053@014(-3) 038@029(-15)
049@042(-28) 041@054(-39) 041@055(-53) 032@049(-60) 037@034(-64)
ALICE 037@011(+15) 036@016(+11) 039@020(+6) 044@028(-4) 028@039(-14)
033@045(-28) 038@051(-38) 036@055(-52) 026@056(-62) 035@039(-65)
LIDEL 038@011(+15) 036@017(+11) 038@022(+6) 042@030(-4) 027@040(-14)
031@045(-28) 036@051(-38) 034@055(-52) 026@056(-62) 035@040(-65)
MQE 041@011(+16) 037@017(+11) 037@024(+6) 037@034(-4) 025@040(-14)
027@044(-28) 032@049(-38) 030@055(-52) 025@057(-62) 035@040(-65)
HPE 044@008(+16) 035@015(+11) 034@021(+6) 035@034(-4) 024@037(-14)
021@040(-28) 028@045(-38) 028@052(-52) 024@055(-62) 035@040(-65)
HANKA 048@007(+16) 034@014(+11) 033@021(+6) 034@034(-4) 023@036(-14)
019@038(-27) 025@044(-38) 027@051(-52) 024@054(-63) 036@040(-66)
MAMRO 047@007(+16) 033@013(+11) 032@021(+6) 033@033(-4) 022@035(-14)
018@037(-27) 024@043(-38) 026@050(-51) 024@053(-63) 036@040(-66)
GTC 023@005(+17) 025@013(+12) 027@020(+7) 029@031(-3) 021@031(-14)
016@032(-27) 020@039(-38) 025@046(-51) 026@049(-63) 037@038(-66)
NESKO 036@004(+18) 022@011(+13) 025@016(+7) 031@024(-3) 020@028(-14)
024@037(-27) 023@032(-38) 028@032(-51) 031@033(-63) 044@030(-67)
SAMON 270@001(+19) 032@006(+14) 038@011(+8) 043@018(-2) 026@024(-13)
036@029(-28) 048@024(-38) 060@020(-51) 054@022(-64) 057@025(-68)
DRIPS 280@003(+19) 038@004(+14) 047@009(+9) 049@017(-2) 032@022(-12)
041@026(-28) 059@024(-38) 077@020(-51) 064@021(-64) 062@024(-68)
SAPRA 296@002(+19) 309@002(+14) 038@002(+9) 074@009(-2) 098@009(-13)
117@014(-28) 113@020(-39) 118@020(-51) 110@019(-63) 086@021(-68)
BULGA 253@002(+18) 258@003(+14) 221@001(+8) 096@007(-1) 116@007(-13)
135@018(-28) 131@020(-39) 128@021(-51) 122@019(-63) 094@019(-67)
KPO 229@003(+18) 241@004(+14) 210@002(+9) 109@006(-1) 126@007(-13)
133@017(-28) 133@019(-39) 132@022(-51) 124@018(-63) 096@018(-67)
ELAPI 235@006(+18) 229@007(+14) 210@005(+9) 151@006(-1) 157@008(-13)
134@014(-28) 138@016(-39) 143@022(-51) 132@016(-62) 100@015(-67)
CUN 235@009(+18) 226@009(+14) 211@008(+9) 176@008(-1) 176@009(-13)
142@012(-28) 139@015(-39) 153@022(-51) 137@013(-62) 101@013(-67)
BIGOB 234@010(+18) 225@009(+14) 212@009(+9) 181@008(-1) 180@010(-13)
146@012(-28) 140@015(-39) 155@022(-51) 138@013(-62) 102@012(-67)
BASEM 231@011(+18) 224@010(+14) 212@009(+9) 187@009(-1) 184@011(-13)
151@012(-28) 143@015(-39) 159@023(-51) 140@012(-62) 102@011(-67)
GUKDO 229@012(+18) 222@011(+14) 212@010(+9) 191@010(-1) 188@012(-13)
162@013(-28) 152@016(-39) 164@024(-51) 142@011(-62) 101@010(-67)
KAKSO 227@011(+18) 220@011(+14) 212@011(+9) 193@010(-1) 190@012(-13)
168@014(-28) 158@017(-39) 168@024(-51) 144@011(-62) 101@010(-67)
SI857 224@011(+18) 219@012(+14) 212@011(+9) 196@010(-1) 192@013(-13)
175@016(-28) 164@018(-39) 172@024(-51) 147@010(-62) 102@009(-67)
SI921 221@011(+18) 218@012(+14) 212@011(+9) 196@010(-1) 192@013(-13)
175@016(-28) 165@018(-39) 172@025(-51) 146@010(-62) 102@009(-67)
SI922 221@011(+18) 218@012(+14) 211@011(+9) 194@010(-1) 191@013(-13)
174@016(-28) 163@018(-39) 170@025(-51) 144@011(-62) 101@009(-67)
SI923 221@011(+18) 217@012(+14) 211@011(+9) 193@010(-1) 190@013(-13)
172@016(-28) 162@018(-39) 169@025(-51) 143@011(-62) 100@009(-66)
SI924 220@011(+18) 217@012(+14) 210@011(+9) 191@010(-1) 189@013(-13)
171@016(-28) 160@018(-39) 168@025(-51) 141@011(-62) 100@009(-67)
SI925 219@011(+18) 216@012(+14) 209@012(+9) 190@010(-1) 187@013(-13)
170@016(-28) 159@018(-39) 167@025(-51) 139@011(-62) 099@010(-66)
PULUN 218@011(+18) 216@012(+14) 210@012(+9) 195@011(-1) 190@014(-13)
175@019(-28) 169@022(-39) 173@026(-51) 144@011(-62) 101@009(-67)
RKSI 217@010(+18) 217@011(+14) 212@011(+9) 200@012(-1) 195@015(-13)
181@022(-28) 178@026(-39) 180@028(-51) 153@011(-62) 105@008(-66)
If you take the time to check through the parsed data you will find that the .WX file DOES NOT contain forecasted wind data for the flight plan .... therefore it is not of any use .... an issue I have been telling people about until I have gone blue in the face for years ... literally.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:30
Carl, a little randomization might be possible.
HH- That would add immensely to the realism.
I would only follow that up with- in the same way as we strive for FMC functionality realism, aerodynamic rotation realism and the myriad other ways PSX strives to "exactly" mimic real 744 behavior- we must move in the direction of REAL Wx aloft, for THAT IS WHAT THE BENCHMARK IS.
If for now, the RANDOMIZED PFPX output is the best possible, then it is what it is. My hope, is that in the same way that you have pursued even the tiniest nuance of 744 behavior, attempting to achieve perfection, you will eventually arrive at a solution for REAL Wx ALOFT.
At the moment, JP's (WIDE PSX) and Gary & Mark's (PSX.NET) are two solutions that allow for the working of injected Wx- thereby allowing for the intrinsic variability of FORECAST vs. REAL. They work brilliantly!
If PSX were to evolve in this area- an already superlative simulation would only grow in accuracy and appeal. After all, whilst departure and approach simulation is a big part of the professional simulation market, as tech evolves, simulating enroute electronic comms and procedurals will become more important to cost effectively simulate for professional training departments.
My additional 2 cents :)
Best- C
While I perfectly understand HH's notes on the subject of not going GRIB, and actually find the kind of approach he mentioned an easier but effective one, specially if the loaded winds / temps are then propagated and merged with PSX's own Global Weather Model data, I would nonetheless leave an "open door" for some 3rd party approach to easily feed this data into PSX.
Say in the future someone builds a standalone even more detailled tool for winds / temps / turb and other Sigmet / Gamet info injection based on a sequence of waypoints and their ETAs or even to fill the whole virtual PSX Globe at given time intervals ( based on GFS or ECMWF Global models...). Any solution and code adaptation that is now going to be written would be even more profitable if a "protocol" was designed that could easily be followed by such applications to communicate with PSX's weather system.
Steve, thank you for the three samples. So now we have the one from Simbrief, and three variants from PFPX. How are these three variants called when you chose them from a menu?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:16How are these three variants called when you chose them from a menu?
Herin lies the issue Hardy.
You can't.
The format lies within syntax contained within the particular flight plan template you have chosen. The flightplan template file could have any name ... most are named in after the airline they refer too to keep it simple.
But I think there is an easy solution for your requirement from PFPX anyway.
Am I correct in thinking that all you want the user to do is copy the data into a .txt format or just have the ability to copy the data in order to paste it?
If this is so I can post a screenshot of the solution taken from the PFPX screen.
With regard to Simbrief - speaking as someone who does not use this online tool ARE WE ABSOLUTELY SURE that Sim Brief ONLY produces one Wind Data output format?
Or, like PFPX is a user able to select differing flightplan formats?
I am only asking to prevent Hardy from working toward a direction only to be told something different after some considerable hours of toil & labour.
If there are no names, -- not important -- I just call them Huey, Dewey, and Louie.
Not so complicated, Steve. No files. Just an optional "copy & paste" action into a new edit field on Instructor > Situation > Weather > Planet.
Maybe it will be finished in December this year. I've got a lot of things on my todo list ...
|-|
Are those three formats the most popular ones?
Hardy,
Here are some screenshots of PFPX in action with the different wind outputs (which have been written into airline specific flight plan formats) The same flightplan has been used - all I have done is select a different flight plan output format.
The areas highlighted in blue were simply highlighted by my mouse on the screen & 'copied'. From there the data can be pasted to basically anywhere.
PFPX showing UPS format:
(https://i.imgur.com/xv1D8f5h.png)
PFPX showing UPS format containing Wind Data Output 1:
(https://i.imgur.com/an0HuH4h.png)
PFPX showing Asiana format:
(https://i.imgur.com/BkLw6Onh.png)
PFPX showing Asiana format containing Wind Data Output 2:
(https://i.imgur.com/lYj9w12h.png)
PFPX showing BAW Cirrus format:
(https://i.imgur.com/6BHn3Loh.png)
PFPX showing BAW Cirrus containing Wind Data Output 3:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ow4pQehh.png)
Yes, that's the way. Just copy & paste with mouse or keyboard.
Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?
(So the name of the third one is not Louie but Cirrus.)
Quote from: G-CIVA on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:29
With regard to Simbrief - speaking as someone who does not use this online tool ARE WE ABSOLUTELY SURE that Sim Brief ONLY produces one Wind Data output format?
The sample I've provided is an OFP in the Simbrief default format: LIDO
Simbrief has actually several OFP Airline layout available (more than 23)
I Assume Hardy will not cover all these format?
I remember Gary's PSX.NET Dispatch system uses Simbrief OFP BAW layout
Please find below an OFP in BAW Layout from Simbrief:
CIRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 7 OF 10 BA 000/13 - PLAN 1 1804 14MAR14
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 310 350
N4038.4W07346.7 KJFK 140 1
N4038.0W07346.3 JFK 032 53 P10 19058 23079 24092 23106
N4122.9W07308.2 MERIT 059 31 M04 19061 23076 24083 24093
N4138.5W07232.8 HFD 058 37 M18 19066 23074 25093 24110
N4157.3W07150.6 PUT 041 16 M42 19060 23067 25094 24105
310 330 350 370
N4520.4W06744.3 TOPPS 037 614 350 M54 26119 26127 25134 26141
N5259.9W05720.6 STEAM 057 100 350 M52 27093 27090 27084 27074
320 340 360 380
N5352.0W05458.0 OYSTR 066 186 360 M52 26065 26065 26061 26057
N5500.0W05000.0 55N05 066 356 360 M52 24044 24047 24047 24047
N5700.0W04000.0 57N04 085 327 360 M56 22079 22078 22076 22074
N5700.0W03000.0 57N03 096 336 360 M59 22119 22122 22117 22111
N5600.0W02000.0 56N02 087 168 360 M58 22068 22070 22073 22075
N5600.0W01500.0 PIKIL 089 34 360 M57 23044 23045 23047 23049
N5600.0W01400.0 SOVED 104 261 360 M57 23041 23043 23044 23045
330 350 370 390
N5442.5W00640.8 OSMEG 100 16 370 M59 27006 26005 24004 21003
N5439.7W00613.8 BEL 124 16 370 M58 32004 33004 34003 00003
N5430.9W00551.7 DUFFY 124 12 370 M58 32004 33004 34003 00003
N5423.9W00534.3 RINGA 124 35 370 M58 06012 06013 06013 07013
N5404.0W00445.8 IOM 124 17 370 M58 05017 05017 06017 06017
N5354.3W00421.9 KELLY 124 30 370 M58 05021 05022 05022 05022
N5336.9W00339.8 PENIL 125 23 370 M58 05021 05022 05022 05022
N5323.5W00308.1 WAL 126 22 370 M58 05036 05037 06038 06040
N5310.1W00238.2 MOGTA 127 3 370 M58 05036 05037 06038 06040
N5308.3W00234.0 NANTI 124 11 370 M58 05036 05037 06038 06040
N5301.8W00218.2 NUGRA 147 24 370 M58 05041 05043 06043 06044
100 200 310 350
CIRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 8 OF 10 BA 000/13 - PLAN 1 1804 14MAR14
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
N5213.0W00128.0 TOBID 139 20 M29 04026 05041 06052 06055
N5157.5W00106.4 SOPIT 139 8 M13 04026 05041 06052 06055
N5151.2W00057.7 WCO 116 17 M07 04026 05041 06052 06055
N5143.6W00033.0 BNN 167 15 P04 04026 05041 06052 06055
DESC FL 100 150 200 310
WIND 04026 05039 05041 06052
N5128.7W00027.7 EGLL
See, the nice thing with this trick is that various programs can generate the Cirrus format, and PSX can parse it.
What are the two columns after the waypoint identifier? (Before the OAT flight level.) Is that leg course and distance?
All wind directions are TRUE north, right?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:11
What are the two columns after the waypoint identifier? (Before the OAT flight level.)
Initial True Track to the nearest whole degree & Segment Distance in Nautical Miles.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:11All wind directions are TRUE north, right?
Good question .... I have looked through the document I have on this subject & it does not mention anywhere in the relevant section about them being TRUE or MAG.
The Simbrief output Bastien has published may well belong to a customer that
uses a well known large flight planning organisation but I can assure you it is not that well known large flight planning organisations default wind data output. Any guesses where Gary got his simbrief Cirrus format from?
The Cirrus (aloft wind & OAT) formats from Simbrief and PFPX are both identical?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:21
The Cirrus (aloft wind & OAT) formats from Simbrief and PFPX are both identical?
Check with Gary on that one ... he did all the Simbrief work.
Your PFPX Cirrus sample looks the same.
Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:24
Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?
The only turbulence data PFPX can parse is SHEAR RATE measured from 0 - 9; this is only parsed within the <Navlog> section of the template if the correct syntax is declared. Shear Rate is not parsed into the Wind Output formats.
Unfortunately the Shear Rate is not included in the Navlog section of a Cirrus OFP.
Could a solution be to allow for an optional extra column on the far left for the user to enter the two digit SHEAR RATE number that he reads from the <Navlog> part of the OFP?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:24
Are there any enroute turbulence or CB data as well?
this information is not provided in SIGMET area, like the sample below ?
================ ENROUTE AIRSPACES ==================================
FUKUOKA FIR (RJJJ)
///SIGMET Jul 251315z-Jul 251915z
WCJP31 RJTD 251315
RJJJ SIGMET A03 VALID 251315/251915 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
TC JONGDARI PSN N2150 E13720 CB OBS AT 1200Z WI N2100 E13550
- N2205 E13550 - N2310 E13710 - N2310 E13805 - N2100 E13737
- Not for real world navigation - Page 28 of 84
KLM 0622 RJCC/LFPG 25.JUL.2018/0905Z
- N2100 E13550 TOP FL540 INTSF FCST AT 1800Z TC CENTRE PSN
N2205 E13740=
///SIGMET Jul 251335z-Jul 251935z
WCJP31 RJTD 251335
RJJJ SIGMET Y04 VALID 251335/251935 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
TC WUKONG PSN N3520 E15720 CB OBS AT 1200Z WI 55NM OF TC
CENTRE TOP FL450 NC FCST AT 1800Z TC CENTRE PSN N3650
E15625=
The shear rate between wind data points will appear in the simulation automatically as a consequence. The simulation may then increase turbulence effects accordingly.
Just a word of caution here folks ...
How many users have the resources to 'intelligently' interpolate this type of rather complex data as illustrated immediately above what I am saying here? There are a lot of LATLONS & FIRs to interpolate there ... not every user will have the ability to do this with sufficient accuracy .... does the information actually lie upon the intended route of flight? Is it in a format that can be interpolated & interrogated? If this info is just entered 'en masse' are we not then guilty of needlessly stretching resources? ... which was what Hardy was setting out to avoid in the first place?
Just some thoughts.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:11
All wind directions are TRUE north, right?
Other than those provided by Twr, always TRUE, and I expect SimBrief and PFPX not to alter the source values...
Turbulence and other significant weather / phenomena is covered by SIGMET / GAMET as well as AIRMET / AIREP
See here : https://www.icao.int/APAC/Documents/edocs/WS-SIGMET.pdf
Here another exemple the Flight Plan weather part (LIDO format):
You can find interesting things like Tropical cyclone or Volcanic Ash SIGMETs
[ Airport WX List ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
RJCC --> LFPG KL 622 / 25JUL2018
LIDO/WEATHER SERVICE DATE : 25Jul2018 TIME : 10:40 UTC
AIRMETs:
No Wx data available
SIGMETSs:
RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
WS SIGMET W01 VALID 250810/251210 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
SEV TURB FCST WI N4130 E14730 - N4521 E15039 - N4634
E15249 - N4600 E15500 - N4040 E14950 - N4130 E14730
FL320/370 STNR INTSF=
UHHH KHABAROVSK FIR
WS SIGMET 5 VALID 250900/251230 UHHH- UHHH KHABAROVSK FIR
EMBD TS FCST E OF E129 AND S OF N50 AND W OF E142 AND
N OF N46 TOP FL400 MOV E 30KMH NC=
UEEE YAKUTSK FIR
WS SIGMET 2 VALID 250800/251200 UEEE- UEEE YAKUTSK FIR
EMBD TS FCST S OF N70 AND E OF E119 TOP FL320 STNR NC=
UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
WS SIGMET 6 VALID 250900/251300 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
EMBD TS FCST S OF LINE N5500 E08847 - N5253 E09900 TOP
FL380 MOV NE 20KMH NC=
WS SIGMET 7 VALID 250900/251300 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
EMBD TS FCST WI N7323 E09100 - N6728 E09432 - N6412
E09347 - N6440 E08403 - N7052 E07835 - N7153 E07600 -
N7323 E09100 TOP FL390 MOV SE 20KMH NC=
WS SIGMET 8 VALID 251000/251200 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
OBSC TS FCST WI N5721 E08810 - N5727 E09732 - N5400
E09600 - N5500 E08840 - N5604 E08905 - N5721 E08810
TOP FL380 MOV NE 20KMH NC=
WS SIGMET 9 VALID 251000/251400 UNKL- UNKL KRASNOYARSK FIR
OBSC TS FCST WI N6700 E10655 - N6200 E10700 - N5838
E10320 - N6058 E09401 - N6540 E09407 - N6700 E10655
TOP FL380 MOV SE 20KMH NC=
Tropical Cyclone SIGMETs:
RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
WC SIGMET A02 VALID 250715/251315 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
TC JONGDARI PSN N2135 E13700 CB OBS AT 0600Z WI N2100
E13507 - N2405 E13755 - N2310 E13925 - N2100 E13810 -
N2100 E13507 TOP FL540 INTSF FCST AT 1200Z TC CENTRE
PSN N2155 E13720=
WC SIGMET Y03 VALID 250735/251335 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
TC WUKONG PSN N3355 E15755 CB OBS AT 0600Z WI 55NM OF
TC CENTRE TOP FL440 NC FCST AT 1200Z TC CENTRE PSN
N3520 E15710=
Volcanic Ash SIGMETs:
RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
WV SIGMET C02 VALID 250610/251210 RJTD- RJJJ FUKUOKA FIR
MT SAKURAJIMA (AIRA CALDERA) PSN N3136 E13039 VA CLD
OBS AT 0520Z WI N3118 E13014 - N3136 E13038 - N3134
E13040 - N3120 E13030 - N3105 E13029 - N3118 E13014
SFC/FL070 FCST AT 1120Z WI N3048 E12927 - N3135 E13040
- N3029 E13014 - N3048 E12927=
Now just one observation, the LIDO format provides more information about FL/wind/temp than the BAW/Cirrus format.
Here a "wind information" view of the same waypoint in the same OFP.
LIDO
YOROI
330 322/028 -34
310 313/026 -29
290 306/025 -24
270 303/026 -20
250 300/027 -15
BAW/Cirrus
N4500.5E14147.1 YOROI 002 12 290 M24 30027 30026 31025 31026
Lido 5 wind & OAT records, Cirrus 4 wind records and 1 OAT record -- you mean that?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:42
Lido 5 wind & OAT records, Cirrus 4 wind records and 1 OAT record -- you mean that?
Yes, you don't have the temp for each record in cirrus
I agree with what Cavaricooper said above, that there's something really nice about flight planning based on a future forecast, and then flying into that forecast to see how accurate it turns out to be.
I think we would lose something if PSX took projected winds from a flight plan and incarnated them as actual winds in the simulated world.
I've found that if you look at an upper level prog chart, and then drag PSX's jet stream sliders around to mimic the shape of the forecast jet stream, then the winds aloft you find in PSX match very well with the winds predicted by the flight planning package.
There will be an optional randomizer for data drifts.
Hardy,
Happy to work with whatever format you go with as its just string manipulation and easy to work with.
However for ease of use with people who dont want to use PSX dispatch (!!???!?) I wonder it its easier just stick with the widely available WX Format or CIRRUS thats available in PFPX and Simbrief.
I would also request a method of injecting a text file or via the network interface so I can hook this in with PSX dispatch and BACARS automatically with no copy and paste.
Loving the idea...
Example PSX.NET/Simbrief Cirrus Format :-
IRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 7 OF 9 BA 9201/25 - PLAN 1 2232 25JUL18
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 310 350
N5128.7W00027.7 EGLL 269 4
N5128.6W00031.0 D253B 151 10 P14 20019 19011 14016 12019
N5119.7W00023.1 D163J 136 1 M06 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.2W00022.3 EPM 091 4 M08 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.1W00015.1 DET32 091 3 M13 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.0W00010.4 D272H 091 24 M16 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5118.4E00027.9 D272E 091 5 M38 20018 18012 14015 12018
Cheers
Gary
Gary, remember the METAR method: PSX can generate a METAR text from the internal variables, and -- vice versa -- can read a pasted METAR text. And such situational PSX data is always in the network; the network can read internal variables as well as METAR texts.
I want to apply the same principle to aloft data. We'll have text. And we'll have internal variables. PSX can read text, and generate text. Of course, it also reads and writes it via the network to synchronize PSX instances. Add-ons can easily participate as usual.
So PSX has internal aloft data (self-made or injected) and, derived from that, PSX can generate a text in a big edit field. The generator provides a menu for various text formats (UPS, Cirrus, Lido, Asiana) by using neutral names:
- American
- British
- German
- Korean
Vice versa, when pasting a text, the menu is not needed as PSX detects the format automatically.
The user may edit the text in the edit field, and PSX will apply the edit in its internal variables. Same as with the METAR edit fields.
The existing jet stream model remains available. Everything's optional.
Regards,
|-|ardy
What FL does the TMP refer to if no FL is indicated?
IRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 7 OF 9 BA 9201/25 - PLAN 1 2232 25JUL18
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 310 350
N5128.7W00027.7 EGLL 269 4
N5128.6W00031.0 D253B 151 10 P14 20019 19011 14016 12019
N5119.7W00023.1 D163J 136 1 M06 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.2W00022.3 EPM 091 4 M08 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.1W00015.1 DET32 091 3 M13 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5119.0W00010.4 D272H 091 24 M16 20018 18012 14015 12018
N5118.4E00027.9 D272E 091 5 M38 20018 18012 14015 12018
The FLs are there HH... only don't matching the legend
100 200 310 350 ...
Those 4 FLs are for the winds.
See FL column between DIS and TMP columns.
The TMP has an extra FL as one single TMP cannot be applied to 4 different FLs.
Here the TMP in the last two lines refers to FL 350:
N4138.5W07232.8 HFD 058 37 M18 19066 23074 25093 24110
N4157.3W07150.6 PUT 041 16 M42 19060 23067 25094 24105
310 330 350 370
N4520.4W06744.3 TOPPS 037 614 350 M54 26119 26127 25134 26141
N5259.9W05720.6 STEAM 057 100 350 M52 27093 27090 27084 27074
Expected Alt / FL when crossing wp ?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:24
What FL does the TMP refer to if no FL is indicated?
The TMP refers to the expected ALT/FL reached overhead that WPT in the CLB/DES Phases.
Unfortunately it is one of the limitations of the CIRRUS output - it becomes rather vague in places.
This is where I
personally believe Wind Data Outputs 1 & 2 have certain advantages in that WIND VECTOR, VELOCITY & TEMPERATURE data is recorded for each WPT at a selection of altitudes from below to above the CRZ ALT relevant to the RTE DATA> Page entry rules from TOC to T/D only.
Thank you.
On the Lido format, which gap size is correct?
This?
CLIMB T O C WKE30 YOROI
350 357/031 -40 330 338/027 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34
Or that?
CLIMB T O C WKE30 YOROI
350 357/031 -40 330 338/027 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34
The first result you have was copied from the generated pdf flight plan
The second one is in a "pure" text format.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WIND INFORMATION
----------------
CLIMB T O C CEFOU TUDEP
350 268/056 -49 370 267/062 -54 370 287/073 -54 370 220/071 -51
310 271/052 -39 350 262/056 -50 350 282/074 -50 350 217/080 -51
200 270/048 -14 330 260/051 -45 330 279/071 -46 330 218/080 -50
150 240/036 -08 310 261/047 -40 310 278/063 -41 310 222/070 -46
100 237/029 +03 290 263/044 -34 290 277/056 -36 290 228/059 -42
T O D DESCENT
390 266/037 -49 350 250/056 -53
370 265/045 -50 310 250/059 -46
350 264/054 -51 200 259/039 -22
330 263/061 -50 150 270/025 -12
310 262/065 -47 100 296/012 -02
But in the same time, as the OFP is genereted automaticaly in PDF by Simbrief and, by the way, the Gary's Dispatch, you probably should accept both results, no ?
Should be no problem if waypoint identifiers have no spaces. But the "T O C" string may also represent three 1-letter NDB stations ...
How many words with spaces exist? Just "T O C" and "T O D"?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:42
Should be no problem if waypoint identifiers have no spaces. But the "T O C" string may also represent three 1-letter NDB stations ...
How many words with spaces exist? Just "T O C" and "T O D"?
As far as can see, it always begins by "CLIMB" followed by "T O C" and end by "T O D" followed by "DESCENT"
Only just a little late to contribute..., but:
SimBrief also produces a PMDG Wind Uplink file (just like SimBrief produces an Aerowinx Route file). This file can be read by a Text editor and shows wind and temperature data for ten flight levels (although these levels are not mentioned).
However, these levels correspond to the Pressure Levels of 850 hPa, 700 hPa, 600 hPa, 500 hPa, 400 hPa, 300 hPa, 250 hPa, 200 hPa, 150 hPa and 100 hPa; and these Pressure Levels correspond to FL050, FL100, FL140, FL180, FL240, FL300, FL340, FL390, FL450 & FL530. Upper Wind Charts are published in accordance with these FL's, the vertical profile chart - produced by SimBrief - shows them all (except for FL530).
This provides a very nice vertical profile of the atmosphere, just like an atmospheric sounding does.
An example...:
HECA 265@14(18) 234@32(14) 232@36(8) 258@29(-5) 242@28(-12)
222@33(-26) 210@31(-35) 190@33(-48) 176@36(-60) 173@37(-62)
CVO 265@14(18) 234@32(14) 232@36(8) 258@29(-5) 242@28(-12)
222@33(-26) 210@31(-35) 190@33(-48) 176@36(-60) 173@37(-62)
Regards,
Simon
Thanks Simon,
You're not late, I think Hardy is still collecting information that help to have a good overview to find standard/efficient solution design and data source.
Simon & Bastien,
It looks like Hardy is reaching a very elegant solution for us - the only way I could see this data being incorporated is in its raw format i.e. copied as a body of text & pasted.
It could prove to be the solution from FL050 up to FL530. & it could negate all the variations of different Wind data outputs.
PFPX can create this file & the file be then saved to a folder/file structure wherever the user requires. All one needs to do is then open it in .txt format & copy the data.
The UPS, Cirrus, Lido, and Asiana formats are sufficient now. Thanks, all.
Asiana has six wind records. That's my maximum for flight plan related purposes.
|-|ardy
Hardy,
I have just had a rethink on my previous post, on closer inspection it could show promise but you seem to have finalised your plan in a certain direction now .... no worries.
On closer inspection my doubts about the .WX files are actually based around how 3rd party software interrogates the .WX file & draws data out of it & then inserts that into the RTE DATA> Page ... thats where issues begin.
Best
Steve
Hardy,
As discussed in the Accessories Section. PFPX produces UPS, AAR, CIRRUS (the same as SIMBRIEF) & this one:
WPT FL320 FL340 FL360 FL380
-----------------------------------------------------------------
NICHO 13019M48P00 13020M52P00 12017M52P05 11014M51P05
NOSHO 06019M47P01 06019M51P01 05019M50P06 04020M49P07
NANZA 01038M46P02 01036M50P02 01038M49P07 01040M48P09
NOLTI 00052M45P04 00060M48P04 36061M48P08 36061M47P09
NULUK 35046M42P06 35050M46P06 35049M48P09 34048M49P08
NATES 30020M40P08 31025M45P08 31030M50P06 31035M55P01
NIKLL 24025M39P10 25025M44P08 25026M50P06 26028M56P01
NIPPI 29031M37P11 30034M42P10 31036M47P09 31038M51P05
NOGAL 00020M34P14 01028M39P13 00028M45P12 00029M50P07
NUBDA 05037M34P15 05042M39P14 05043M45P12 05044M50P07
ALICE 04042M34P15 04045M38P14 04047M44P12 04049M49P07
HPE 03040M33P15 03043M38P14 03046M44P12 03049M49P07
GTC 03038M33P15 03040M38P14 03044M44P13 03047M49P08
NESKO 03037M33P16 03036M38P15 03036M43P13 03036M49P08
SAMON 04029M33P15 04027M38P14 04025M44P13 05023M49P08
SAPRA 11013M34P15 11015M39P14 11016M44P12 11016M49P08
Wind HDG & VELOCITY in KTS, TEMP in CELCIUS (M = minus P = plus), ISA Deviation (M = minus P = plus)
QuotePFPX can create this file & the file be then saved to a folder/file structure wherever the user requires. All one needs to do is then open it in .txt format & copy the data.
Just one question, Steve: would I need PFPX for that (Windows based, I am on MAC)?
Simon
Quote from: Simonijs on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:42
Just one question, Steve: would I need PFPX for that (Windows based, I am on MAC)?
Simon
You're right actualy PFPX is windows compatible only. (payware + annual fees to download data such as Winds, METAR, TAF, Tracks and NOTAMs)
Simbrief/ Gary's PSX NET Dispatch are web based and free of charge (can donate)
I guess PFPX would be needed if the choice of using a unique "proprietary" format is done.
But Hardy seems to prudently choose some more "open" format as possible data source.
Regards
Bastien
Quote from: G-CIVA on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:09
Hardy,
As discussed in the Accessories Section. PFPX produces UPS, AAR, CIRRUS (the same as SIMBRIEF) & this one:
Is this a preferred format among PSX users? I find that ISA deviation method cumbersome. Which 744 operator uses that?
Can we find the four most popular formats that PSX users prefer? At the moment I have:
UPS
Cirrus
Lido
Asiana
I'm not looking for the best one. I'm looking for the four most popular ones that are used by PSX users.
Off topic: how often, during a real-world flight, are the forecast winds updated?
I confess, I've been loading the forecast winds into the FMC during preflight and then I don't think I ever update them after departure. The forecasts are generated every 6 hours, so the FMC could be updated once or twice during a long flight. Does that happen in real world operations?
In real world (airbus) operation, I load the forecast winds only during preflight (my longest flights are about 12 hours)
I think forecast winds in the FMC and in the operational flight plan should be the same.
QuoteI think forecast winds in the FMC and in the operational flight plan should be the same.
Yes... I would support this as well. It would be quite nice to make (A) the flight planned forecast winds and (B) the FMC forecast winds identical.
Not to be too repetitive, but I'm sounding a note of caution against making (A) the flight planned winds, and (B) the FMC forecast winds, identical to (C) the ACTUAL winds in PSX... because that would represent a world in which the forecast is always perfect, and that would be an unrealistically sterile and predictable environment.
So I'm in favor of Hardy's randomizer, however he wants to do it.
Re Hardy's request: "I'm not looking for the best one. I'm looking for the four most popular ones that are used by PSX users. "
My input on this is that I've quite liked PFPX as a general planner, but it is overkill for my style of PSX use (in addition to the other characteristics - cost, Windows only, etc.- mentioned by others). Since I've been using PS Net Dispatch, I've found this a better match for my PSX flights in terms of matching pre-flight work flows etc. As long as that option remains in the mix of what Hardy ends up with I'm happy.
As usual, much thanks to the whole community for good discussions and support for understanding how to use the various PSX options and tools.
Cheers,
Torrence
Quote from: G-CIVA on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 12:48
Hardy,
Dont get confused about the wind data output ... PFPX can only create the formats I have shown you - Huey Louie & Dewie.
They get inserted into whichever template I write DLH, ABW, VIR SQC etc .... all of the above list contain either Huey Louie or Dewie.
Do you know which company created the respective wind format? For instance, if the wind format shown in your UPS sample is not only used by UPS but also by other airlines, can we still assume this format is an invention of UPS? This is just a cosmetic question; I'm just looking for reasonable names for my menu. If that UPS wind format is an invention of, say, Aeroflot, I can't call it "American" :-)
|-|
Quote from: Will on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 17:34
Quote.
So I'm in favor of Hardy's randomizer, however he wants to do it.
I compelely agree.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:23
Is this a preferred format among PSX users? I find that ISA deviation method cumbersome.
Hardy,
I have been mulling over this during the night.
I can confirm it is
NOT one of the popular formats in use - you already have those.
In light of you comment about the ISA issue - lets leave things as they are. I have shown a method - in this thread - for PFPX users to achieve a workaround to create the necessary info PSX in the formats PSX requires.
The most recent that we are discussing here which contains the ISA syntax will not be in any of the OFP formats I will be offering for download for use with PSX
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Thu, 26 Jul 2018 18:25
Do you know which company created the respective wind format?
Hardy,
The two formats I have provided you other than the one that appears in a BAW CIRRUS flight plan appear in various different company flight plans provided by different flight planning software tools.
LIDO, Jeppessen SITA etc.
Indeed the other two formats even appear in three distinctly different company options provided by LIDO!
So they could all be called 'LIDO' !
This is why I would always err on the side of caution when someone says to you:
"This format is LIDO etc"
Flight Planning providers are in the business of being able to provide what the customer wants - after all - the customer is always right.
So they are not really linked to an airline or flight planning provider. Some customers will see other Airline examples & follow their lead ... I guess Pilots & Dispatch Staff do get to chat sometimes about what what formats are easier to use than others.
Steve
I could call them "4 wind records" (Cirrus), "5 wind records" (Lido etc.), "6 wind records" (Asiana etc.).
Just one minor addition: There are two variants of the "5 wind records" format:
"Lido" sample:
350 357/031 -40 330 338/027 -34 330 322/028 -34 330 322/028 -34
"UPS" sample:
FL310 161/021 -45 FL360 121/017 -52 FL360 045/019 -50
The latter has 3 columns instead of 4, and an "FL" prefix.
So the menu may look like this:
• 4 wind records
• 5 wind records (3 columns)
• 5 wind records (4 columns)
• 6 wind records
BA pilots would click "4 wind records", Asiana pilots would click "6 wind records".
These are just names. The formats will not only have different amounts of records but also different layouts as shown in this thread.
Regards,
|-|ardy
Hardy,
So long as you are happy - I am happy.
I am just doing a final check of all of the PSX related templates & other PFPX related PSX files before I bundle them up in a single folder for dropbox.
I have also sent you an e-mail just incase you did not read my last post but there is something else in there to read too.
Best
Steve
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 27 Jul 2018 05:26
So the menu may look like this:
• 4 wind records
• 5 wind records (3 columns)
• 5 wind records (4 columns)
• 6 wind records
BA pilots would click "4 wind records", Asiana pilots would click "6 wind records".
These are just names. The formats will not only have different amounts of records but also different layouts as shown in this thread.
For me it's ok like that and clear from a user point of view.
Will the text box have an error control if the wrong menu is chosen, to inform the user ?
Bastien
The menu is just for the case when PSX generates a text.
When PSX reads an edited or pasted text, the format is detected automatically.
The function can also be used to convert a format, although it won't make much sense.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:16
The menu is just for the case when PSX generates a text.
When PSX reads an edited or pasted text, the format is detected automatically.
The function can also be used to convert a format, although it won't make much sense.
Great solution!
Regards
Bastien
Hardy,
What are you planning to do with the rest of winds in the PSX sky? Like for example, if the flight plan includes winds for only three waypoints, what would the winds be like for the remaining ten thousand stations? Or if the flight plan had winds on a route from Paris to Berlin, what would the winds be like over Beijing or Bangkok?
I'll make a tutorial when it's finished :-)
Hi Hardy
I understand you already decided to go the text route, however, as I mentioned in this forum a few months ago, I am (or was) writing a Java tool for injecting Winds Aloft and other stuff. Sadly, life as a cybersecurity incident responder has left me little time to advance the project. Anyhow, the reason I'm telling you this is because there are ways to reduce the size of GRIB2 downloads dramatically, and by that I mean the download could be in the range of a couple of hundreds of Kilobytes. One just has to select the correct "items" and the necessary altitude levels using an http request directly to the NOAA servers. X-Plane 11, for example, downloads its worldwide Winds Aloft data and I rarely see it go above 250Kb. In my own code, I had it down to 400-600Kb approximately (it was not optimized) by using the lat/lon values of the filed route (I was intending to use the FMC to pull that information from, but didn't get to that point). If you're interested, I could send you the code I wrote for that if you're ever interested in following that path. Downside is, I won't be home for another week or so.
Cheers
-E
Enrique-
I would be a cheerleader for anything that took us in the direction of directly injecting LIVE REAL WX, Winds & Temps into PSX; so if auto-parsing GRIB data could facilitate more efficient downloads, I'm a fan!
Ultimately, that IMHO is as important as accurate VNAV or Fuel Burn- an essential element of the 747-400 operational simulation.
The copy/paste can be more immediately instituted, and could be an temporary/interim solution, but the end game's necessity is obvious (to me anyhow).
For P3D (for visuals) users, JP's WidePSX and Mark/Gary's PSX.NET/WINDS do the trick.
Best- C
Hi
Grateful any improvement in upper winds projections,although I know they can vary for obvious reasons .
On a flight across the Tasman yesterday at FL 400 the following were results I gleaned from four sources.
SimBrief 261/97
PSX On PFD 252/80
Active Sky 257/97
Download PSX 261/131
With the wind on the nose like this I took a long time to reach YSSY from NZAA!
Am I doing something wrong (which would not be unusual) or are these normal expected variations?
Cheers
Derek
P.S. It may be that the route is not strongly populated thus reports vary.
Hi Enrique, I know, nevertheless it would bloat PSX with an additional big factory (preparing, downloading, processing) that just rebuilds a wheel that already exists -- in the user's flight plan. Users have a flight plan and want this plan to (almost) agree with the simulator. It makes no sense to produce two books in two factories that contain the same text anyway.
Carl, I think you're misunderstanding something. No matter whether I read the forecast data from the NOAA server or from your flight plan; in either case they are FORECAST data, NOT real-time data. "GRIB" is a format for data compression which is used for FORECAST data; it's not a "LIVE" format.
Regards,
|-|ardy
Quote from: Derek Adam on Sat, 28 Jul 2018 05:43
Hi
Grateful any improvement in upper winds projections,although I know they can vary for obvious reasons .
On a flight across the Tasman yesterday at FL 400 the following were results I gleaned from four sources.
SimBrief 261/97
PSX On PFD 252/80
Active Sky 257/97
Download PSX 261/131
With the wind on the nose like this I took a long time to reach YSSY from NZAA!
Am I doing something wrong (which would not be unusual) or are these normal expected variations?
Cheers
Derek
P.S. It may be that the route is not strongly populated thus reports vary.
I've seen weather injection tools populating the whole route with a snapshot of aloft winds & temps for a given time ( ETD, time of mid route, etc... ) while others do a more sophisticated use of the GRIBs and populate the fixes with data that is retrieved based on the expected time at that particular fix, interpolated... Ohers use a mix of these with their own randomization.
I believe Flight Operation software IRW also do this more sophisticated stuff for a route with alternates ( ? ).
Since I rarely play PSX with a full, "747-type" route, but prefer to jump from place to place, searching for weather, I seldom even start PFPX or use my SimBrief account.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 28 Jul 2018 06:27
Carl, I think you're misunderstanding something. No matter whether I read the forecast data from the NOAA server or from your flight plan; in either case they are FORECAST data, NOT real-time data. "GRIB" is a format for data compression which is used for FORECAST data; it's not a "LIVE" format.
|-|ardy
HH-
I get that, the point I hope I'm making is that eventually the goal MUST BE injecting REAL Wx into PSX at every FL, so that we plan with FORECASTED Wx and fly with REAL Wx.
Quote from: cavaricooper on Sat, 28 Jul 2018 01:22
The copy/paste can be more immediately instituted, and could be an temporary/interim solution, but the end game's necessity is obvious (to me anyhow).
That is the ONLY solution that approaches the perfection the PSX strives for and achieves in everything else!
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 28 Jul 2018 06:27
Users have a flight plan and want this plan to (almost) agree with the simulator.
This user is busy finding and planning for the DIFFERENCES between the two, in much the same way as I believe the commercial world would appreciate their trainees building skill sets to deal with those same differences. Whilst "agreeable" Wx is less eventful, it's the UNPREDICTED DIFFERENCES where learning blossoms.
The difference between DISPATCH FUEL, and the seasoned captain mumbling, "Lets add a few tons tonight."
Only one opinion.
Best- C
Carl, I fear you still don't get it. Unfortunately, all my weather balloons have exploded and so I can't provide real aloft weather to you. And NOAA doesn't provide real aloft weather either.
So the real weather will be simulated by applying random variations to the received forecast data.
Only ATIS/METAR is real weather.
You can keep typing your wishes in big capitals; it won't change the world.
End of transmission. Roger over.
HH-
Got it.
Unfortunately, my hope chest hasn't exploded, and perhaps one day there will be a way for PSX in much the same way as JP and Mark/Gary have done for the P3D/PSX combo (with AS).
In the meantime, Enrique's thoughts accompanied by your variability, do sound promising.
Roger Dodger, got my Vector Victor, over ;)
C
No, you didn't. And you just can't stop repeating the same nonsense.
Apologies, stopped.
C
So, just to get my facts straight. If this below is all correct, just reply "OK" or something.
1. METAR is near-actual, but always past, data on the ground. It can be extrapolated a bit up and in between airports but it is only relevant for, say, below 18,000 ft.
2. There is no actual winds/temps aloft data available anywhere, as the collected data points by weather balloon and aircraft ACARS are far between and hours old. This won't change any time soon. Nobody has this data, not the NOAA, not the KGB, not even Facebook.
3. So all available aloft data sources are forecasts, using advanced methods and as many real data points as they could get. But forecasts. Hazy crystal balls. If you inject 'live winds aloft' from these sources, you inject a guesstimation, not an observation.
4. Flight plans are built using these forecasts, and thus nearly always agree with the forecasts, as they are coming from the same hazy crystal balls.
5. Wind uploads come from the same forecasts.
6. Since neither forecast not flight plan nor FMC are locked to reality, surprise is around the corner in real-life and should be in simulated flight. The level of surprise may be selectable at the sim pilot's desire. Real-world pilots do not have such a surprise level selector, sadly.
7. It is as effective to inject the flight plan forecast into the PSX aloft surprise generator, as the NOAA aloft forecast, as they are the same. They are both slightly wrong. The real planet does what it wants and does not tell us.
8. Only when the world invents a truly realtime global winds/temps aloft detector/reporter, we need to revisit the PSX surpriser.
Hoppie
Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 29 Jul 2018 19:28
8. Only when the world invents a truly realtime global winds/temps aloft detector/reporter, we need to revisit the PSX surpriser.
Hoppie
Having tried to tackle the winds aloft issue from various angles since PS1 days, I agree with the analysis, Hoppie.
I'd only add that even if you had 8 (in nerd speak - a global n-dimensional state vector for the global atmosphere) it wouldn't really solve the problem because of the 'butterfly' effect. Weather on the scale of an aircraft is intrinsically chaotic - if you had the magic state vector and flew two aircraft through the same volume of atmosphere just minutes apart you'd still be likely to hear something like this on ATC: "Center, this is Airprobe 1 at FL320, did you get any turbulence reports from that Virgin flight ahead of us? We just got some real jolts - have you got a smoother altitude for us?"
Cheers
Torrence
Added note: The amazing thing actually is the forecasts are good enough that, if winds are the only issue, flights can usually arrive within minutes of scheduled time.
To torrence's last point, the forecasts are usually good enough because the winds aloft are almost always coming from the west at 80 kts +/- 1-50 kts, and the temperature is almost always -55, +/- 1-10 degrees.
And this is the reason that the native PSX aloft environment often does so well when compared against performance planned by PFPX or other sources of real-world forecast data.
What really makes for significant changes is the jet stream, but the jet stream isn't everywhere. I've said this before, but if you just drag the jet stream sliders in PSX so that you get something that looks even a little like a current upper level prog chart, then a flight flown in the PSX atmosphere comes acceptably close to performance data predicted by PFPX. And has just the right amount of surprise.
I can see the utility, though, in having the forecast winds incarnated into the PSX environment, and that would be to test a PSX flight under completely controlled conditions. This could be useful and in some cases even fun, but that "surprise" factor that Jeroen eloquently describes would be missing, and so it would depart from reality. However, a simulator itself departs from reality, so there's not an a priori quibble there.
Unrelated thought: Making a weather randomizer can be simple, or complex.
Simple randomizer: every weather value varies randomly by somewhere between -25% and +25%.
Complex randomizer: the predicted front probably arrives, but it arrives randomly early or late, and is randomly stronger or weaker than forecast.
The complex randomizer approach probably needs supercomputer resources, as it is essentially a weather simulator.
Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 29 Jul 2018 19:28
So, just to get my facts straight. If this below is all correct, just reply "OK" or something.
2. There is no actual winds/temps aloft data available anywhere, as the collected data points by weather balloon and aircraft ACARS are far between and hours old. This won't change any time soon. Nobody has this data, not the NOAA, not the KGB, not even Facebook.
I think that this is the most important point - there are no real time upper wind data available, not even to the airlines (except of data transmitted with POS REPORTS). The weather baloons which collect real wind data in the upper atmosphere are launched only 2 times per day (at 00:00z and 12:00z) at approx. 800 representative positions around the globe.
The data collected by the balloons are then fed into the high performance computers which use these and other data for their forecast models (e.g. GFS, EZMF, UKMO, GEM to name a few). I assume that NOAA uses the GFS forecast data for their GRIB output. GFS creates a new model output every 6 hrs (00:00z, 6:00z, 12:00z and 18:00z). And these outputs are the basis of the flight planning.
So basically, the available upper wind data are never in real time and are always based on computer calculations. For short term prognosis the data are quite accurate. But if you compare the outputs of different models (e.g. GFS vs. EZMF) you can easily spot differences. Sometimes GFS is more accurate, sometimes EZMF. The reality is often in between.
I'm curious to see what Hardy comes up with. :-)
Best regards,
Dirk
Quote from: Dirk Schepmann on Mon, 30 Jul 2018 00:27
Quote from: Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers on Sun, 29 Jul 2018 19:28
So, just to get my facts straight. If this below is all correct, just reply "OK" or something.
2. There is no actual winds/temps aloft data available anywhere, as the collected data points by weather balloon and aircraft ACARS are far between and hours old. This won't change any time soon. Nobody has this data, not the NOAA, not the KGB, not even Facebook.
I think that this is the most important point - there are no real time upper wind data available, not even to the airlines (except of data transmitted with POS REPORTS). The weather baloons which collect real wind data in the upper atmosphere are launched only 2 times per day (at 00:00z and 12:00z) at approx. 800 representative positions around the globe.
The data collected by the balloons are then fed into the high performance computers which use these and other data for their forecast models (e.g. GFS, EZMF, UKMO, GEM to name a few). I assume that NOAA uses the GFS forecast data for their GRIB output. GFS creates a new model output every 6 hrs (00:00z, 6:00z, 12:00z and 18:00z). And these outputs are the basis of the flight planning.
So basically, the available upper wind data are never in real time and are always based on computer calculations. For short term prognosis the data are quite accurate. But if you compare the outputs of different models (e.g. GFS vs. EZMF) you can easily spot differences. Sometimes GFS is more accurate, sometimes EZMF. The reality is often in between.
I'm curious to see what Hardy comes up with. :-)
Best regards,
Dirk
Don't know EZMF ? We use the UKMO and ECMWF, both Global, the only two GLOBAL. Not that much of a difference for higher level winds and temps between the two.
Tropopause height is another important piece of data, but I don't know if HH is planning to use it for instance to also adapt PSX's Jetstream model accordingly "on-the-fly".
Regarding the approach followed by OFP generators, they should naturally adapt the data they use to the expected times at the successive waypoints of a given route. This is why, for instance, Active Sky (they have it from GRIB to the whole World) asks for a route to better set the winds and temps aloft because that way they can better adapt it to the route, and should the flight be a long one, interim downloads will occur with new fresh data.
I actually find Hardy's approach rather pragmatic, effective and easy to use for those who use PSX as it is supposed to be used, to simulate RL operations of such an airliner - not like I use it as a sim I load from time to time to play a few approaches under bad weather :-), but then again, METAR will be more than sufficient for my kind of playing ....
Hi jcomm,
EZMW is the German word for ECMWF. ;)
All models are quite accurate for predictions in the range of 12-48 hrs. After 72 hrs it get's interesting but that's not relevant for aviation.
However, I personally like to study the weather outputs for Germany to predict the weather. Right now we have very high temperatures and a draught in many parts of Europe. The forecasts of GFS and ECMWF are quite different for next week, but my bet is that ECMWF wins. We'll see next week. :)
But that's off-topic. Sorry for that.
For the interested reader ;), but you may want to wait for a rainy day:
http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/GOS/ABO/AMDAR/resources/AMDAR_Programme_Development.html
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2370/877464b5a608dac16f97488365d4fb52d01e.pdf
All about increasing forecast accuracy.
Regards,
Simon
Yet another approach to near-real-time wind data, as reported in this weeks edition of the german weekly newspaper DIE ZEIT: on August 21st 2018, ESA will launch the Aeolus spacecraft, which will be capable of measuring upper wind using a UV-laser powered LIDAR instrument (Aladin).
https://www.zeit.de/2018/31/satellit-aeolus-wetter-daten-messung-weltall-geschwindigkeit (in German)
According to the article it will measure up to 24 layers and will have max. 3h from data download to availabilty "on a public website" (whatever that means) via the weather center in Reading.
More from Airbus:
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/06/Airbus-built-Aeolus-wind-sensor-satellite-ready-for-shipment.html
I thought Hardy had a pretty good system with the jet stream model.
If you set the jet streams as accurately as you can based on current real-world data, then you take a chart showing upper level winds, PSX isn't too far off the mark (close enough that it doesn't matter).
Even if we were to get "real upper level winds" into the sim, would it still actually represent reality any more accurately than it already does? I doubt it.
I know many pilots use a "rule of thumb" for winds anyway, across the route. If they're doing trans-Atlantic stuff they'll use an average 50 kts wind (either head or tail depending on direction of flight) then check this against the flight plan. If they compute more fuel, they add the difference.
If you get "unusual" situations, such as a hurricane, or they're flying around the ITCZ (Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone), then again they'll do their own "back of the envelope" check and add the difference.
Once you're half-way into your 14 hour flight, not much you can do if the weather changes unexpectedly.
Hi, here's a new question.
Background:
An adjustable randomizer will generate a difference between the flight plan data and the actual data.
E.g. when 080°/50 kt, 10°C are set on the documents, the weather model may randomize this to,
for example, 071°/59 kt, 13°C.
A "randomize" slider will have a scale from "Off" (full left) to "Extreme" (full right).
Question:
When the slider is set to "Extreme", what should be the maximum allowable differences?
Suggestion:
Wind difference: Up to +/- 040°
Speed difference: Up to +/- 20 kt
OAT difference: Up to +/- 10°C
Regards,
|-|ardy
Having looked at lots of real world OFPs & compared this data in real time to the out put data created by WX engines PSX users are using to inject WX into scenery generators I see the difference in the two is actually quite small - indicating that the designers of these WX engines are now getting their WX data from decent sources.
This is also true for the other WX data that forms the circle & which you also intend to utilise to create the upper wind/temp WX situation for PSX - from PFPX (or Garys flight planning software)
So what I am saying is that having studied this topic very closely now since the inception of PFPX the error margins between the real upper wind data - as in outside your front door, the simulated & injected wind data - as created by well known 3rd party WX engines & the planned WX data - as created by flight planning software tools like PFPX is now all very close to matching in detail.
Can I suggest the following:
Wind difference: Up to +/- 020°
Speed difference: Up to +/- 20 kt
OAT difference: Up to +/- 5°C - I have never seen a temp deviation greater than this across the various areas of data I have surveyed - Real World OFPs, WX engines, PFPX or the real WX on the planet
Any greater deviation has huge implications for flight planning & would be spotted during the planning phase. To simply have a randomly generated number in excess of this would literally play havoc with the flight planning process. Its one of the reasons why there are discreet Flight Planning Performance Cruise Tables for each aircraft at varying temperatures of deviation away from the ISA temperature at cruise flight levels
I think the slider is a great idea ... functional & simple & giving a really measured control over the random nature of the probabilities.
Simple answer: Steve's suggestions are good.
More complicated answer: you can get much bigger deviations in wind speed and direction if the jet stream is farther north or farther south than predicted. But modeling this is more complicated, because it wouldn't be realistic to see a 50 kt deviation in one sector, followed by 0 kt deviation in the next sector, followed by a 45 kt deviation in the next, followed by a 7 kt deviation in the next.
If the deviations are strictly random, you might end up with a series of deviations that would be completely unrealistic. But if you could move the jet stream randomly +/- 150 miles farther south than predicted... then that might be both random and realistic at the same time. But that's obviously quite complicated.
I suppose that especially the jet stream would be detected quite quickly if it manages to escape forecast. The first few aircraft will yell bloody murder and then the rest can reroute?
Hoppie
I need to add that my question rather refers to real life operations. What are the most extreme differences re actual wind & OAT compared to flight plan data that a real crew experiences on typical flights every year?
I understand, if a PSX user works with real NOAA data on the plan and FSX weather add-ons in the model, the difference will be very low, and this technical difference by itself may already serve as a sufficient random effect. In this case, the user simply sets the slider to OFF.
The feature I want to implement is not restricted to the usage with NOAA forecast and FSX weather add-ons. The feature will be able to take any input from any source, and that may lead to near-zero differences. Even though such near-zero differences are unlikely, I want to assume that they are or will be possible, and hence I want to give the random slider more headroom for such rare cases. That's the reason for the slider's existence. Otherwise I could also replace the slider by an on/off checkbox for a fixed random value.
Please note that the randomizer will not set just one constant difference in all of the hundreds of flight plan variables. Each variable will be individually randomized. The slider just sets the maximum allowable difference.
Regards,
|-|ardy
P.S.: For the wind speed, the random value may be a percentage instead of a value in knots. That is, areas with higher wind speeds will be subject to higher differences (in knots). E.g. if 10% is set, a 20 kt speed may vary by 2 kt, and a 200 kt speed may vary by 20 kt. Therefore, jet stream areas will have a greater uncertainty knot-wise. The percentage cannot be applied to wind direction and OAT as those have to be linear; i.e. 300° is not more variable than 003°, and -50°C is not more variable than -10°C.
No specific figures, I'm afraid, but perhaps to say that it would be unusual for the flight planned destination fuel predictions and the actual en-route predictions to be outside a tonne throughout the flight. It's normally very accurate.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Peter.
Quote from: Britjet on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 00:34perhaps to say that it would be unusual for the flight planned destination fuel predictions and the actual en-route predictions to be outside a tonne throughout the flight. It's normally very accurate.
Quoting Peters very real experience is invaluable here.
Using the metrics I have described in my earlier post & planning PSX flights with my PPFPX files I am able to achieve an accuracy close this tolerance with alarming regularity.
I've found the same thing (and said it before here) -- planning in PFPX based on real-world weather, and then flying with PSX weather, as long as you drag the jet stream into something that merely approximates the 300 Mb chart -- makes for very accurate flights. Variation between PSX and the PFPX prediction seems probably within the limits of the difference between actual dispatch weather and real-world flying, but of course that's just a guess on my part.
From my A340 FCTM :
WIND AND TEMPERATURE When reaching cruise FL, the crew will ensure that the wind and temperatures are correctly entered and the lateral and vertical F-PLN reflect the CFP. Wind entries should be made at waypoints when there is a difference of either 30 ° or 30 kt for the wind data and 5 °C for temperature deviation. These entries should be made up to four different levels to reflect the actual wind and temperature profile. This will ensure that the FMS fuel and time predictions are as accurate as possible and provide an accurate OPT FL computation.
Good hint. Thanks. So the maximum allowable difference should exceed 030°, 30 kt, 5°C in order to allow such scenarios (when desired).
Sorry for the question but I may missed something; will this new feature be autonomus, with no need to use FSX/P3D simulators, or PSX.NET, FSX/P3D extra weather generator etc?
Thanks
If you want to sync it with add-on XY, you need add-on XY.
If you want to design your own corridor, you need no add-on.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:53
Good hint. Thanks. So the maximum allowable difference should exceed 030°, 30 kt, 5°C in order to allow such scenarios (when desired).
Just to be clear - I assume that what he is taking about here is a manual input of the wind data and when to do it. In practice it is done manually as described when the forecast wind or temp changes significantly, rather than for each leg.
Peter.
Yes, that's clear.
|-|ardy
Hardy,
Chances of getting this in before world flight?
Our psx.net.weather module needs some fixes doing to it, shall we not bother and await your superior native version?
Cheers
Gary
Definetely not before world flight. Rather December or next year. Seriously.
Cheers,
|-|ardy
Looks like it might be Wednesday, then...:-(
I just realized there's a misunderstanding in this comment:
Quote from: G-CIVA on Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:13
Having looked at lots of real world OFPs & compared this data in real time to the out put data created by WX engines PSX users are using to inject WX into scenery generators I see the difference in the two is actually quite small ...
Understood. Although flight plan programs and FSX weather add-ons may download the same NOAA forecast data, both may apply that data slightly differently in their respective own code, leading to slight disagreements between flight plan programs and FSX weather add-ons.
But such disagreements won't affect the PSX side.
PSX won't get data from FSX weather add-ons.
PSX will get NOAA forecast data. Typically, this NOAA forecast data will be copied from a flight plan text. Not from an FSX weather add-on.
Using my new edit feature in PSX, a special wind & OAT data corridor can be designed (if desired) by editing data tables on a special text screen on the Instructor. The displayed data will be directly applied to the internal weather model using a corridor embedded in the planet weather model (if desired).
This means, the internal weather model will
exactly agree with the data displayed on the screen -- as long as the "randomize" slider is set to "minimum". That's why the slider is important.
FSX weather add-ons may be used for
visual weather effects in
FSX.
They won't be required for data injections into PSX.
Regards,
|-|ardy
Off-topic question: When a random generated gust occurs in an FSX weather scenario at a networked VATSIM location, will this gust hit all VATSIM aircraft at that location at the same time? Or will each aircraft simulation use a different gust event randomization?
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58
Off-topic question: When a random generated gust occurs in an FSX weather scenario at a networked VATSIM location, will this gust hit all VATSIM aircraft at that location at the same time? Or will each aircraft simulation use a different gust event randomization?
The VATSIM system contains winds and yes, a gust is broadcasted over all aircraft. However, I doubt whether any VATSIM client nowadays does anything at all with these winds. I presume everybody just injects "real weather" which means METARs which means random gusts.
Hoppie
not having looked at VATSIM data streams for about 15 years...
No misunderstanding at this end Hardy.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58
Off-topic question: When a random generated gust occurs in an FSX weather scenario at a networked VATSIM location, will this gust hit all VATSIM aircraft at that location at the same time? Or will each aircraft simulation use a different gust event randomization?
Short answer -
no.
The beauty of the PSX WX environment 'overriding' any FSX/p3D WX engine injection below 20000ft is that PSX properly interpolates turbulence & gust events from the WX source PSX downloads from whereas FSX/p3D WX engines often do not.
I always fly online & I can site countless occasions where I have seen 'MOD TURB BLW 5000' or 'MOD WS ALL RWYS' - in METAR reports, I have reported such back to online ATC after having experienced such events & have sometimes had to conduct missed approaches.
Those simmers flying FS products totally within the FSX/p3D environment at the same point in time & space as me did not experience or encounter such WX events using FSX/p3D WX engines, with VATSIM WX enabled or or if using 'native' FSX/p3D downloadable WX.
Hi all,
this Cirrus sample is formatted for waypoint identifiers whose length don't exceed 5 characters:
N4138.5W07232.8 HFD 058 37 M18 19066 23074 25093 24110
N4157.3W07150.6 PUT 041 16 M42 19060 23067 25094 24105
310 330 350 370
N4520.4W06744.3 TOPPS 037 614 350 M54 26119 26127 25134 26141
N5259.9W05720.6 STEAM 057 100 350 M52 27093 27090 27084 27074
What if a 7-character identifier like "N45W123" is to be printed? Will the whole list get 2 more character columns before the course column, or should 7-character identifiers be abbreviated to 5 characters?
Thanks,
|-|ardy
Caveat: I don't know any Cirrus requirements specs.
The usual way of handling this is to stupidly print more than 5 characters and screw the formatting. This kind of tables is technically space-delimited and not position -- else they would have placed the columns together. As long as you maintain whitespace between the columns, parsers should be able to eat it.
The counterargument is the line with the four floating values. That's to screw up other people's lives. Looks like a header repeated halfway?
Hoppie
No problem for the parser. I'm just asking for aesthetical reasons :-) There's another Cirrus sample with space for 6 characters instead of 5. I'm making space for 7.
Perhaps the flight plan generators never use non-database 7-character waypoints. I need them because I'm doing it the other around, using the current FMC route (which may include pilot created waypoints) to generate an OFP weather data text in Cirrus format etc.
|-|ardy
Cirrus:
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 310 350
N4038.4W07346.7 KJFK 140 1
N4038.0W07346.3 JFK 032 53 P10 19058 23079 24092 23106
N4122.9W07308.2 MERIT 059 31 M04 19061 23076 24083 24093
KJFK is the start of the route. Why is there a DIS of 1 nm to KJFK? I saw this "1" in other Cirrus samples too. Shouldn't the origin distance always be "0" or blank? And why is there an ITT of 140° to the start of the route?
(This has no technical meaning to my purposes; I'm just trying to reproduce the text design.)
|-|ardy
P.S.: What are the OAT reference altitudes at JFK and MERIT (P10 and M04)? "FL" values are only indicated for cruise waypoints. JFK and MERIT are climb waypoints.
Hardy,
My Cirrus manual simply states...
Forecast temperature at the planned level in degrees Celsius. M denotes minus, P plus.
Peter
Thanks, Peter. That's clear. But in that sample there's no "planned level" indicated at JFK (P10) and MERIT (M04), so I don't know what levels these temps refer to.
In my version, for all climb and descent waypoints, I indicate the respective predicted profile altitudes (in rounded FL values), and the displayed temps refer to them.
(And I leave the ITT and DIS blank for the initial fix.)
|-|ardy
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sat, 10 Nov 2018 14:56
Thanks, Peter. That's clear. But in that sample there's no "planned level" indicated at JFK (P10) and MERIT (M04), so I don't know what levels these temps refer to.
|-|ardy
Yes, I know :-( Unfortunately this is the only text that refers to this - even for the descent figures..
Peter
Good morning,
some questions on this 6-wind-records format ...
In this example the wind altitudes are not in parantheses:
24000 30000 34000 36000 38000 41000
PANC 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
TED 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
NODLE 15015M28 16020M43 17022M52 16020M52 16017M53 16012M51
Should the wind altitudes always be in parantheses like this?
(24000) (30000) (34000) (36000) (38000) (41000)
PANC 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
TED 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
NODLE 15015M28 16020M43 17022M52 16020M52 16017M53 16012M51
May any wind altitudes reappear further down like in the Cirrus format (for step climbs)?
(24000) (30000) (34000) (36000) (38000) (41000)
PANC 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
TED 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
NODLE 15015M28 16020M43 17022M52 16020M52 16017M53 16012M51
(26000) (32000) (36000) (38000) (40000) (43000)
NICHO 12016M29 13018M43 13020M52 12017M52 11014M51 10010M50
NOSHO 06019M28 06019M42 06019M51 05019M50 04020M49 03021M49
May any descent (DSC) wind data appear at the end like this, and should they be in parantheses or not?
(24000) (30000) (34000) (36000) (38000) (41000)
PANC 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
TED 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54 18014M52
NODLE 15015M28 16020M43 17022M52 16020M52 16017M53 16012M51
(26000) (32000) (36000) (38000) (40000) (43000)
NICHO 12016M29 13018M43 13020M52 12017M52 11014M51 10010M50
NOSHO 06019M28 06019M42 06019M51 05019M50 04020M49 03021M49
(34000) (30000) (24000) (16000) (10000)
DSC 17018M27 18021M42 18025M52 18022M53 18020M54
And should this format always have the Lat/Lon under each waypoint? In this example there are no coords:
(CLIMB) NICHO NOSHO
FL310 161/021 -45 FL360 121/017 -52 FL360 045/019 -50
FL250 148/016 -31 FL340 126/020 -52 FL340 056/019 -51
FL190 145/015 -18 FL320 127/019 -48 FL320 056/019 -47
12000 147/013 -5 FL300 128/018 -43 FL300 056/019 -42
6000 139/011 +5 FL280 125/018 -39 FL280 059/019 -38
Thanks!
|-|ardy
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 9 Nov 2018 02:46
Cirrus:
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 310 350
N4038.4W07346.7 KJFK 140 1
N4038.0W07346.3 JFK 032 53 P10 19058 23079 24092 23106
N4122.9W07308.2 MERIT 059 31 M04 19061 23076 24083 24093
KJFK is the start of the route. Why is there a DIS of 1 nm to KJFK? I saw this "1" in other Cirrus samples too. Shouldn't the origin distance always be "0" or blank? And why is there an ITT of 140° to the start of the route?
I think that the 1 NM refers to the distance between KJFK (probably defined as the ARP) and the JFK VOR, 53 NM represents the distance between JFK and MERIT and so forth. With this interpretation, the ITT also makes sense.
Best regards,
Dirk
You're right, Dirk.
This is different to the common format used on FMC LEGS pages etc. (which also use the ITT in the same line).
Does anybody know whether this is intentional in all Cirrus text generators, or a bug in this particular generator? (I can't recall which program generated this sample.)
Cheers,
|-|ardy
Hardy,
This is correct -- it makes sense on the page as it makes it much easier to add up the cumulative times etc (you take the ETA at the previous point and add the number immediately below it, whereas if the distance/time to figures were associated with the following waypoint it would get much more confusing).
OK, thank you.
Any hints from the OFP experts on this?
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4817.msg53057#msg53057
Or is this all random cosmetics?
Quick off-topic note re forecast versus observation confusion: I think some people who use weather injection add-ons may confuse wind/OAT aloft data with SIGMET data. Unlike wind aloft data which is always a long term forecast, SIGMET can be both forecast and observation and may be updated more often, like METARs and ATIS. Of course, SIGMET doesn't provide wind/OAT values for use in performance calculations; SIGMET just indicates dangerous areas like thunderstorms etc. -- Wind/OAT and SIGMET, apple and orange, are both included in operational flight plans, but they refer to different time frames.
Regards,
|-|ardy (not trying to discuss SIGMET in this thread -- different topic)
Hardy,
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 13 Nov 2018 23:04
Any hints from the OFP experts on this?
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=4817.msg53057#msg53057
Re
Reply #120 on: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 07:57Did you retrieve these outputs from Simbrief?
If you did then this is a 'Gotcha' ...
I thought the plan was to use only the CIRRUS style format from Simbrief & the output formats from PFPX as included in the OFP Templates I have given people links to? PFPX produces UPS, AAR & CIRRUS or 'Huey' Louie' & 'Duey' formats as we already discussed as nauseum.
Simbrief may well be producing the random cosmetics you talk about which could be causing snags/issues with these differing formats.
(Never any confusion here re the difference between SIGMET & wind/OAT data btw ;D)
I retrieved these outputs from the examples in this forum thread.
My plan is implemented now and works fine so far. Lower case characters are autochanged to upper case, and certain parantheses are autoreplaced by spaces, etc.
The new feature is called "Corridor" and has an extra subpage with a text editor under the Instructor's Weather tab. The feature provides 4 different formats as discussed in this thread. These formats are autodetected when a text copy from an external program is pasted into the edit field. PSX then transfers the data in the edit field into the internal planet weather model (smooth transit). There is also a "Scan" button to start a scan of the internal (non-corridor) planet weather model along the current FMC route; the scanner then generates respective text data in the edit field. No matter whether the text is generated internally or pasted from an external source, the user can edit this text and thus design a complex weather scenario. The scanner generated text can be considered a template. The scanner generates the format selected in a special menu. For example, when this situ file is loaded ...
01 Departure 009 - Cordoba - Santiago.situ
... and "Generate 6 wind records per leg" is selected, the scanner will generate this text:
29000 33000 39000 41000 43000 45000
SACO 32056M33 31069M40 30091M52 29095M54 29091M54 29087M54
PAMAX 32042M33 31054M41 30073M52 29076M54 29073M54 29070M54
ORABA 28036M33 29041M40 29054M52 29057M54 30054M54 30052M54
ASIMO 30036M35 30041M42 29048M52 29048M54 29046M54 29044M54
D355O 30036M35 30041M42 29049M53 29048M55 29046M55 29044M55
RW17R 30036M35 30041M43 29049M53 29048M55 29046M55 29044M55
PEFOR 30036M36 30041M43 29049M54 29048M55 29046M55 29044M55
When "Generate 5 wind records per leg (4 columns)" is selected:
SACO PAMAX ORABA ASIMO
400 293/095 -54 400 293/077 -54 440 295/053 -54 400 291/049 -54
310 312/062 -37 380 297/070 -50 420 294/056 -54 310 301/038 -38
220 335/037 -20 360 301/063 -46 400 292/057 -54 220 313/027 -22
130 003/021 -03 340 306/057 -42 380 290/051 -50 130 328/015 -06
040 069/012 +14 320 310/051 -39 360 288/045 -46 040 000/004 +10
D355O RW17R PEFOR
400 290/049 -55 400 290/049 -55 400 290/049 -55
310 300/038 -39 310 300/038 -39 310 300/039 -39
220 312/027 -23 220 312/027 -23 220 312/027 -23
130 328/016 -06 130 328/016 -06 130 328/016 -07
040 000/004 +10 040 000/004 +10 040 000/004 +10
When "Generate 5 wind records per leg (3 columns)" is selected:
SACO PAMAX ORABA
FL400 293/095 -54 FL400 293/077 -54 FL440 295/053 -54
FL310 312/062 -37 FL380 297/070 -50 FL420 294/056 -54
FL220 335/037 -20 FL360 301/063 -46 FL400 292/057 -54
FL130 003/021 -3 FL340 306/057 -42 FL380 290/051 -50
FL040 069/012 +14 FL320 310/051 -39 FL360 288/045 -46
ASIMO D355O RW17R
FL400 291/049 -54 FL400 290/049 -55 FL400 290/049 -55
FL310 301/038 -38 FL310 300/038 -39 FL310 300/038 -39
FL220 313/027 -22 FL220 312/027 -23 FL220 312/027 -23
FL130 328/015 -6 FL130 328/016 -6 FL130 328/016 -6
4000 000/004 +10 4000 000/004 +10 4000 000/004 +10
PEFOR
FL400 290/049 -55
FL310 300/039 -39
FL220 312/027 -23
FL130 328/016 -7
4000 000/004 +10
When "Generate 4 wind records per leg" is selected:
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 360 400
S3118.6W06412.5 SACO 265 81 040 P14 02018 34032 30080 29095
S3123.4W06516.4 PAMAX 265 83 360 M47 02018 34029 30063 29077
360 380 400 420
S3129.3W06653.2 ORABA 258 178 400 M54 29045 29051 29057 29056
100 200 360 400
S3153.0W07019.0 ASIMO 178 82 280 M34 34012 32024 30044 29049
S3307.5W07049.1 D355O 177 14 060 P06 34012 32024 30045 29049
S3322.3W07048.2 RW17R 177 13 040 P10 34012 32024 29045 29049
S3335.2W07046.5 PEFOR 355 12 050 P08 34012 32025 29045 29049
DESC FL 100 200 340 380
WIND 35011 34023 33039 32043
Change any value in the text or add/delete waypoints (corridor points), PSX will inject the edited data into the weather model.
Data from point to point is smoothly interpolated. And the whole embedded corridor is interpolated with the surrounding planet weather model abeam the corridor. On the corridor path, 100% corridor data and 0% planet weather data is used. 500 nm abeam the corridor, 100% planet weather data is used.
There is a master checkbox to activate the corridor. The corridor is also displayed on the Instructor map by a large, blurred magenta band.
So this new feature does not only allow "copy & paste" from external sources. It also allows the user to freely design more complex weather situations. Invalid data in the text are indicated by red error messages. The whole corridor is only applied internally when no errors exists.
Regards,
|-|ardy
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:07
I retrieved these outputs from the examples in this forum thread.
My plan is implemented now and works fine so far.
Ok - sounds very promising!
When "Generate 5 wind records per leg (4 columns)" or "Generate 5 wind records per leg (3 columns)" are selected - PFPX will
automatically create LATLON information in two rows & it appears under immediately under the WPT name (
UPS format) is this automatically removed by the 'certain parantheses are autoreplaced by spaces' statement you describe?
I implemented the lat/lon generation only for the "4 records per leg" type. I referred to the examples in this thread; the other types didn't include them. That's why I asked again. So are they always included in the 5-records type? Or is this yet another format option?
I do not remove any of my own parantheses that my scanner generates. I remove certain parantheses that the user will type or paste into the text.
There are two options to create a text:
(A) Let the scanner generate a text.
(B) Paste a text from an external source.
And after all, there is the third option:
(C) The user edits the text.
Any change in the text editor will be parsed. Of course, I know what format my scanner generates, and so I know the format for my parser program. But I also need to know what format variations external text copies include. If the 5-record type now includes lat/lon, I have to modify my generator and my parser.
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Mon, 3 Dec 2018 00:35So are they always included in the 5-records type?
Yes, always.
So is this below actually from Simbrief, not from PFPX?
Quote from: G-CIVA on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:02
Hardy,
Okay apologies, I must have misunderstood ...
Here are the three PFPX formats ......
(CLIMB) NICHO NOSHO
FL310 161/021 -45 FL360 121/017 -52 FL360 045/019 -50
FL250 148/016 -31 FL340 126/020 -52 FL340 056/019 -51
FL190 145/015 -18 FL320 127/019 -48 FL320 056/019 -47
12000 147/013 -5 FL300 128/018 -43 FL300 056/019 -42
6000 139/011 +5 FL280 125/018 -39 FL280 059/019 -38
NANZA NOLTI NULUK
FL360 010/038 -49 FL360 359/061 -48 FL360 345/049 -48
FL340 014/036 -50 FL340 001/060 -48 FL340 346/050 -46
FL320 013/038 -46 FL320 001/052 -45 FL320 347/046 -42
FL300 013/039 -42 FL300 002/043 -41 FL300 348/042 -37
FL280 014/033 -37 FL280 003/040 -36 FL280 348/038 -33
NATES NIKLL NIPPI
FL370 314/032 -53 FL370 256/027 -53 FL400 307/037 -54
FL350 311/027 -47 FL350 250/026 -47 FL380 309/038 -51
FL330 305/022 -42 FL330 245/025 -41 FL360 305/036 -47
FL310 290/018 -37 FL310 242/025 -36 FL340 300/034 -42
FL290 279/017 -33 FL290 241/025 -31 FL320 289/031 -37
NOGAL NUBDA ALICE
FL400 359/030 -54 FL400 047/042 -54 FL400 041/049 -54
FL380 002/029 -50 FL380 049/044 -50 FL380 043/049 -49
FL360 004/028 -45 FL360 049/043 -45 FL360 043/047 -44
FL340 007/028 -39 FL340 049/042 -39 FL340 044/045 -38
FL320 000/020 -34 FL320 050/037 -34 FL320 041/042 -34
HPE GTC NESKO
FL400 032/050 -54 FL400 028/048 -54 FL400 029/036 -54
FL380 032/049 -49 FL380 027/047 -49 FL380 027/036 -49
FL360 032/046 -44 FL360 026/044 -44 FL360 026/036 -43
FL340 032/043 -38 FL340 025/040 -38 FL340 025/036 -38
FL320 030/040 -33 FL320 025/038 -33 FL320 025/037 -33
SAMON SAPRA (DESCENT)
FL400 047/023 -54 FL400 111/017 -54 FL350 157/020 -41
FL380 046/023 -49 FL380 113/016 -49 FL280 170/013 -23
FL360 044/025 -44 FL360 114/016 -44 FL210 190/010 -7
FL340 041/027 -38 FL340 114/015 -39 14000 204/010 +5
FL320 036/029 -33 FL320 110/013 -34 7000 223/012 +17
Hardy,
I have absolutely no idea why the LATLON data has not appeared.
I have never used or quoted any Simbrief outputs since I do not use it.
In every other post in this thread in which I have referred to the PFPX 'UPS' style of wind data output I have always used material which displayed the LATLON info directly under the WPT name.
PFPX showing UPS format:
(https://i.imgur.com/xv1D8f5h.png)
PFPX showing UPS format containing Wind Data Output 1:
(https://i.imgur.com/an0HuH4h.png)
PFPX Wind Data Output 1:
WIND/TEMP SUMMARY
(CLIMB) KAROL KOSEG
N3226.2 N3252.0 N3408.5
E03342.2 E03229.0 E03054.3
FL290 248/021 -26 FL340 237/027 -37 FL340 239/044 -36
FL230 225/017 -13 FL320 242/029 -33 FL320 241/046 -32
17000 211/015 -0 FL300 246/030 -28 FL300 243/047 -28
11000 227/008 +11 FL280 243/027 -24 FL280 241/043 -25
5000 297/002 +21 FL260 238/024 -20 FL260 239/038 -21
IRBAX LARKI LUPIS
N3605.2 N3723.9 N3912.6
E02825.2 E02650.2 E02457.5
FL360 238/070 -42 FL360 236/075 -43 FL360 231/049 -46
FL340 240/069 -37 FL340 238/072 -39 FL340 234/041 -44
FL320 241/065 -34 FL320 237/065 -36 FL320 230/031 -41
FL300 242/060 -30 FL300 236/058 -33 FL300 223/020 -37
FL280 241/053 -27 FL280 235/050 -29 FL280 225/018 -33
DIKNI LONTA RONOP
N4053.9 N4209.5 N4511.1
E02312.3 E02123.8 E00709.3
FL360 228/020 -49 FL360 279/007 -50 FL380 075/031 -58
FL340 245/013 -47 FL340 309/009 -48 FL360 072/031 -54
FL320 245/012 -43 FL320 326/008 -44 FL340 068/031 -49
FL300 245/011 -38 FL300 349/008 -39 FL320 064/027 -44
FL280 245/009 -34 FL280 358/006 -35 FL300 058/024 -39
MEBAK LMG LEBRI
N4542.4 N4548.9 N4548.6
E00438.9 E00101.5 W00232.0
FL380 065/023 -57 FL380 050/013 -57 FL380 057/008 -56
FL360 069/021 -53 FL360 050/011 -52 FL360 061/012 -52
FL340 073/019 -49 FL340 052/008 -48 FL340 064/015 -47
FL320 070/017 -44 FL320 062/004 -43 FL320 064/018 -43
FL300 066/015 -38 FL300 154/002 -38 FL300 063/021 -37
ERWAN SIVIR 4615N
N4556.2 N4600.0 N4600.0
W00513.2 W00845.0 W01500.0
FL380 070/011 -56 FL400 068/005 -58 FL400 310/003 -59
FL360 076/017 -52 FL380 080/007 -56 FL380 328/004 -58
FL340 079/023 -48 FL360 090/008 -52 FL360 326/004 -53
FL320 077/023 -43 FL340 096/011 -48 FL340 325/005 -48
FL300 076/022 -38 FL320 103/010 -44 FL320 304/005 -43
4620N 4630N 4440N
N4600.0 N4600.0 N4400.0
W02000.0 W03000.0 W04000.0
FL400 201/020 -57 FL400 253/044 -58 FL400 282/049 -54
FL380 198/024 -55 FL380 253/049 -55 FL380 281/051 -52
FL360 197/027 -51 FL360 253/049 -51 FL360 283/048 -50
FL340 197/031 -48 FL340 254/049 -46 FL340 286/045 -47
FL320 202/031 -43 FL320 250/045 -40 FL320 288/045 -43
4250N 4155N 4160N
N4200.0 N4100.0 N4100.0
W05000.0 W05500.0 W06000.0
FL400 301/064 -58 FL400 271/034 -58 FL400 229/032 -58
FL380 301/069 -54 FL380 270/034 -54 FL380 231/032 -53
FL360 299/064 -50 FL360 267/030 -49 FL360 243/033 -48
FL340 296/059 -44 FL340 263/026 -43 FL340 255/035 -42
FL320 290/052 -39 FL320 259/023 -37 FL320 255/032 -37
DOVEY (DESCENT)
N4107.0 N4102.5
W06700.0 W07246.1
FL400 234/052 -57 FL350 259/018 -46
FL380 234/060 -54 FL280 266/017 -33
FL360 234/058 -49 FL210 306/011 -16
FL340 233/056 -43 14000 328/003 -1
FL320 233/053 -38 7000 090/006 +9
PFPX showing Asiana format:
(https://i.imgur.com/BkLw6Onh.png)
PFPX showing Asiana format containing Wind Data Output 2:
(https://i.imgur.com/lYj9w12h.png)
PFPX Wind Data Output 2:
24000 30000 34000 36000 38000 41000
RKSI 27028M17 25040M31 26054M41 26059M46 26064M51 25069M58
DE33R 27028M17 26039M31 26053M41 26059M46 26064M51 25069M58
SI761 27028M17 26038M31 26053M41 26058M46 26063M51 25068M58
SI762 27027M17 26037M31 26051M41 26057M46 26062M51 25067M58
SOSIK 27027M17 25038M31 26053M41 26059M46 26064M51 25069M58
SI741 27028M17 25041M30 25055M40 26061M46 26066M51 25071M58
SI742 26029M17 25044M30 25057M41 26063M46 26068M51 25073M58
SI743 26031M17 25047M30 25060M41 26065M46 26070M51 25075M58
EGOBA 26033M17 25047M30 25060M41 26065M46 26070M51 25076M58
KARBU 26035M17 25048M31 25061M41 26066M46 26071M51 25077M58
BIKSI 26038M17 25053M31 25067M41 25072M46 25077M51 25083M58
KAE 26039M17 25055M31 25068M41 25073M46 25078M51 25084M58
NOMEX 26043M17 25058M30 25074M41 25079M46 25084M51 25088M58
BUSKO 26045M17 25060M30 25074M40 25079M46 25084M51 25089M58
TENAS 25051M17 25063M30 25073M40 25077M46 25082M51 26088M59
SABET 25053M17 25065M30 25073M41 25077M46 25081M51 26087M59
ANDOL 25053M17 25066M30 25074M41 25078M46 25081M51 26088M59
KAMSA 26054M17 25064M30 25074M41 25079M46 25083M51 26088M59
IGOBI 26060M17 26064M30 26076M40 26079M46 26082M51 27083M58
TATAM 26060M17 26066M30 26074M40 26077M46 27079M51 27080M58
GOLDO 26060M17 26067M30 26075M40 27078M46 27080M51 27081M58
NAMMY 27049M18 26080M31 27091M40 27092M46 27093M51 27086M58
MRE 27049M19 26072M32 27093M41 27095M47 27097M52 27086M58
SMELT 27049M19 26071M32 27093M42 27096M47 27098M51 27086M57
TIKYU 27046M19 27069M33 27086M42 27091M47 27095M52 27082M57
MAMBE 27045M20 27068M33 27084M42 27090M48 27095M53 27081M57
SIRAO 27044M20 27067M33 27083M42 27089M48 27094M53 27080M57
CHE 26033M21 27062M34 27082M43 27083M48 27083M53 27070M56
RUMOI 25019M21 26024M36 26051M45 26055M49 26059M52 27053M56
YOROI 11011M23 26014M36 28006M48 26017M51 26026M53 27030M55
WKE 10013M23 27010M36 28010M48 27017M51 26023M54 27026M56
LUMIN 10015M23 29007M37 28014M47 27017M51 27021M55 27023M56
LIKON 05014M23 05012M39 01010M49 36010M52 34010M56 32013M56
DITOR 01017M23 02019M39 02019M49 02020M53 01021M57 00019M57
AMKUD 36019M23 00025M39 01028M49 01030M53 01032M57 00028M58
KUNAB 36020M23 00025M39 01029M49 01031M53 01032M57 36029M58
RUPON 35020M24 36028M39 00032M49 00034M54 36035M57 36031M58
NIKTU 35023M24 35031M39 36037M50 35038M54 35039M57 35034M57
ABOMA 33043M24 33053M40 34058M51 34054M54 34050M56 34041M56
AGUBI 31064M28 31073M42 32065M48 32057M49 32049M50 32039M50
ODORA 30049M30 31056M42 31050M46 31044M46 31039M47 32033M48
NIBUT 27023M31 27028M42 28027M45 29027M45 30028M45 31025M47
MOTEB 25023M31 24026M43 26024M45 27023M45 29023M45 30021M46
TISUR 25024M31 22033M44 25026M45 26022M45 28020M45 30018M46
TUREP 24025M31 22036M43 24028M45 26023M45 27020M45 29017M46
AMETO 24026M30 22038M44 24029M46 25023M45 27019M45 29016M46
ARGUP 23029M30 21048M44 23033M46 24025M46 25020M45 28015M46
LEKNI 22031M30 21056M44 22043M48 23032M47 24023M46 26015M46
SOPUR 22036M30 21056M44 22050M48 23037M47 24025M46 25016M46
BUMAT 22038M29 23059M44 23056M50 23044M49 23034M48 24022M48
GORAS 25037M29 25060M43 25060M51 25048M50 25038M50 26026M49
ARNAP 27030M29 27052M44 27059M50 27046M49 27034M48 28023M47
BETAM 28034M30 28054M44 28061M50 28047M49 28034M48 28023M47
USAMA 29037M31 29065M45 29059M49 29044M47 29030M46 29020M46
LAMKU 29038M31 29067M45 29058M49 29043M47 29029M46 29020M46
LUNAD 30041M32 29069M44 29053M48 29039M47 29027M45 29018M45
GETKA 30040M33 29065M44 30046M47 29035M46 29024M45 29017M45
NALEK 30040M33 30064M44 30045M47 29034M46 29024M45 29016M45
BUMUL 30038M33 30062M44 30042M46 29032M46 29023M45 29016M45
GIRLO 17034M36 18029M45 20014M44 21011M44 22008M44 23006M44
BC 17039M35 17044M46 18022M46 18016M45 19011M45 21007M45
ABINA 17045M34 16056M47 17035M49 17024M47 18014M45 19008M45
VALDA 17046M34 16054M47 17036M50 17024M48 18014M46 19008M45
ICEEE 17037M34 17031M47 16024M55 17018M51 17013M48 17008M47
SLEDD 17037M34 17031M47 16023M55 17018M51 17013M48 17008M47
MCG 16009M32 14015M48 15023M57 14020M56 14017M54 13013M51
FFITZ 11013M32 11023M48 12032M57 12024M54 12016M52 11012M50
ROHHN 09017M32 09021M47 10025M57 10021M55 11018M54 11014M51
TAGER 08017M32 09022M47 09026M57 10022M55 10018M54 11014M51
TED 08021M31 09024M47 09029M57 09024M56 10019M54 10014M51
PANC 08020M32 09025M48 09029M57 09023M55 10017M54 10012M51
PFPX showing BAW Cirrus format:
(https://i.imgur.com/6BHn3Loh.png)
PFPX showing BAW Cirrus containing Wind Data Output 3:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ow4pQehh.png)
[/quote
PFPX Wind Data Output 3:
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
190 210 230 250
N5128.6W00025.9 EGLL 264 6 P07
N5128.0W00035.7 D257E 181 5 M01 28047 29052 29057 30061
N5122.9W00035.8 D161I 160 6 M04 28047 29052 30057 30061
N5117.6W00032.7 D161N 193 5 M07 28047 29052 30057 30060
N5113.0W00034.4 D012J 191 10 M10 29047 29052 30057 30060
N5103.2W00037.5 MID 157 55 M16 29047 29052 30057 30060
N5012.5W00004.5 DRAKE 156 7 230 M29 29042 30046 30051 30055
270 290 310 330
N5006.0E00000.0 SITET 166 26 M29 31057 31060 31063 31066
N4941.0E00009.8 ETRAT 165 23 M39 31057 31060 31063 31066
N4918.6E00018.7 DVL 165 32 M48 31056 31060 31063 31066
N4847.4E00031.8 LGL 165 17 310 M49 31056 31060 31063 31066
N4831.3E00038.1 SORAP 165 17 310 M49 32056 31060 31064 31066
N4815.1E00044.6 BENAR 165 26 310 M49 32056 32060 32064 32067
N4750.2E00054.4 VANAD 165 25 310 M49 32056 32061 32065 32068
N4725.7E00103.8 AMB 181 55 310 M49 32057 32062 32066 32069
N4630.9E00102.0 BALAN 167 64 310 M49 33059 33064 32069 32074
N4528.4E00122.5 EVPOK 167 73 310 M48 33062 33068 33073 33078
N4417.7E00144.9 NARAK 171 21 310 M48 34066 34071 33077 33082
N4357.2E00149.4 GAI 176 37 310 M48 34067 34072 34078 33084
N4320.6E00152.9 LOMRA 176 40 310 M48 34069 34075 34080 34085
N4240.3E00156.7 ROCAN 172 19 310 M48 34073 34079 34084 34088
N4222.0E00200.5 PUMAL 176 41 310 M48 34075 34081 34086 34089
N4141.2E00204.3 XEPLA 176 23 310 M47 34078 34083 34087 34090
N4118.4E00206.4 BCN 165 31 310 M47 34078 34083 34086 34089
N4048.1E00217.2 GARBI 165 11 310 M47 34078 34082 34086 34088
N4037.5E00220.9 LARPA 165 8 310 M47 34078 34082 34085 34088
N4030.0E00223.5 TOLSO 165 19 310 M47 34078 34082 34085 34088
N4012.1E00229.7 LISAS 165 48 310 M47 34078 34082 34085 34087
N3926.1E00245.4 MJV 192 10 310 M47 34079 34083 34085 34087
N3916.5E00242.9 ASMOT 192 46 310 M47 34079 34083 34085 34087
N3831.8E00231.0 OLMIR 192 45 310 M47 34079 34082 34084 34086
N3748.2E00219.7 SADAF 185 73 310 M47 34078 34081 34082 34083
280 300 320 340
N3636.0E00211.5 CHE 204 82 M47 33072 34075 34075 34075
N3520.8E00130.8 TRB 192 101 320 M49 34059 34061 34061 34061
N3342.5E00104.7 BAY 177 43 320 M49 34045 35046 34047 34049
N3300.0E00107.3 BREZI 177 226 320 M49 35044 35045 35047 35050
N2915.0E00120.7 JOKKA 177 348 320 M48 02033 02036 01033 01030
N2328.4E00140.4 ROFER 177 165 320 M45 25051 25055 25062 25069
310 330 350 370
N2044.3E00149.4 TERAS 177 437 M41 25090 25101 25108 25112
320 340 360 380
N1329.0E00212.3 NY 178 117 M45 25046 26048 26047 26046
N1132.3E00215.5 DIBSA 178 32 360 M47 24034 25036 26035 26034
N1100.0E00216.3 TATAT 179 92 360 M47 24031 25033 25032 26031
N0928.3E00218.4 DEPUB 178 59 360 M47 23025 24026 24026 25027
N0830.0E00220.5 VOSSA 179 38 360 M46 21021 22021 23022 24024
N0751.7E00221.4 KELEX 179 64 360 M46 20020 20018 22019 24022
N0647.4E00222.9 BIKAB 179 26 360 M46 18019 18019 20016 22015
330 350 370 390
N0621.7E00223.5 TYE 165 15 M46 18020 18017 19014 21012
N0606.9E00227.6 NAVRO 165 13 370 M49 17020 17018 18014 19012
N0554.5E00231.0 EPITI 165 63 370 M49 17021 17018 18014 19011
N0453.4E00247.6 TAMOK 165 56 370 M49 16026 16023 16017 16012
N0400.0E00302.2 KINBU 174 544 370 M49 16029 16024 16016 16009
S0500.0E00400.0 0504S 169 306 370 M49 13019 12016 10016 09016
S1000.0E00500.0 1005S 169 306 370 M49 14023 14017 13009 10004
S1500.0E00600.0 1506S 162 189 370 M50 21016 23017 25017 27018
S1800.0E00700.0 1807S 163 566 370 M51 24017 25022 26026 27030
S2700.0E01000.0 2710S 140 398 370 M53 27060 27064 27069 26073
S3200.0E01500.0 BUXIR 125 157 370 M53 27094 27101 27106 26108
DESC FL 90 180 320 370
WIND 26015 27039 27088 27093
Hardy/Steve,
Just ran one off on Simbrief is you wanted to test another one. Note the winds above 100kts are showing as 2 digits still.
IRRUS FLT PLAN
PAGE 6 OF 7 BA 9201/03 - PLAN 1 0954 03DEC18
LAT LONG WAYPT ITT DIS FL TMP SECTOR W/V
100 200 310 350
N5128.7W00027.7 EGLL 269 4
N5128.6W00031.0 D253B 151 10 P06 26045 26062 27101 27104
N5119.7W00023.1 D163J 136 1 M12 26046 26062 27102 27105
N5119.2W00022.3 EPM 091 4 M14 26046 26062 27102 27105
N5119.1W00015.1 DET32 091 3 M19 26046 26062 27102 27105
N5119.0W00010.4 DE29A 091 24 M22 26046 26062 27102 27105
N5118.4E00027.9 D272E 091 5 M41 26046 26062 27102 27105
N5118.2E00035.8 DET 106 30 M44 26047 26062 27100 27104
N5109.8E00121.5 DVR 094 24 M53 26047 26062 27100 27104
N5107.8E00200.0 KONAN 094 12 M54 27047 26061 27097 27102
330 350 370 390
N5105.7E00239.1 KOK 117 118 370 M55 28079 28080 28077 28074
N5008.6E00522.4 KOMOB 119 34 370 M55 29079 29080 28077 28073
N4951.7E00607.8 DIK 117 17 370 M55 28072 28073 28071 28069
N4943.7E00631.2 PITES 113 92 370 M54 28066 28067 28067 28067
N4906.5E00839.9 BANUX 114 54 370 M55 28065 28069 28068 28067
N4843.4E00954.4 VEKIR 115 31 370 M55 28062 28065 28063 28062
100 200 310 350
N4815.8E01118.7 MAH 103 21 M44 28042 28036 29048 30069
N4810.8E01149.0 MUN 124 38 M27 28040 28033 28036 29056
N4749.3E01236.1 UNKEN 047 11 P00 28034 28036 27037 29049
N4756.8E01248.1 WS506 071 4 P07 28034 28036 27037 29049
N4758.1E01253.6 SBG 157 11 P08 28034 28036 27037 29049
DESC FL 100 150 200 310
WIND 28036 28033 28037 28047
N4747.7E01300.2 LOWS
TOW 234974 KG ZFW 215835 KG PL 36212 KG LAW 223974 KG
Quote from: Gary Oliver on Mon, 3 Dec 2018 09:58
Hardy/Steve,
Just ran one off on Simbrief is you wanted to test another one. Note the winds above 100kts are showing as 2 digits still.
Sort of -- actually, the winds are always three digits, with a leading zero for wind speeds below 100 kt (27104 for 270/104 kt, or 26045 for 260/045 kt).
The direction, on the other hand, is always 2 digits ;)
Thanks, all.
It's all implemented already, except for the lat/lon in the 5-record format, which, by the way, is the only format that has 3-digit wind directions.
|-|ardy
Hardy,
honestly, there's already a LOT of work on this feature, which wasn't even announced as TO-DO when PSX was released in 2014.
The parsing algorithms are certainly the simpler task - provided you have the right tools at hand from the extensive Java libraries, but the integration of these inputs with your Global Weather Model is a task whose complexity I believe I can evaluate... It's not fair, IMHO, to be offered!
If we pay that residual value each year for the NAV Database updates, how can we not support this task, which is far from being simple, and certainly took you already too many hours ?
There are no Java libraries for this, unfortunately :-)
(This wind aloft stuff and the SIGMET stuff will probably be included in the NG FMC package next year.)
|-|ardy
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Tue, 4 Dec 2018 15:12
There are no Java libraries for this, unfortunately :-)
(This wind aloft stuff and the SIGMET stuff will probably be included in the NG FMC package next year.)
|-|ardy
Ah! That looks fair to me !!! Looking forward for the NG FMC package update next year ;-)
Next year is in 3 weeks... so... this seems like another awesome development pace by Hardy ;-)
Cheers
-E
... and will end 12 months later.
|-|
For example:
(Click on pic to enlarge)
(http://aerowinx.com/assets/pics/psxExtra1001.jpg)
(http://aerowinx.com/assets/pics/psxExtra1002.jpg)
|-|
You're a Genius!
I like the corridor ;-)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/animaljam/images/b/ba/Shocked-emoji.png/revision/latest?cb=20150630233842)
Most pleasing :-)
I am ready to remove the PSX.NET.Weather Module, Remove the Wind Uplink Bodge from BACARS and rewrite it to inject the PSX Dispatch Centre info direct into PSX as per your new model.
The best thing is this will be before Peter notices it doesn't work sometimes :-)....Most pleasing.....
Cheers
G
Wonderful.
That's looks really good. Thank you for implementing this feature, Hardy.
Will there be a gradual change (i.e. smooth transition) to the PSX standard atmosphere at the boundaries of the corridor?
Best regards,
Dirk
Smooth, of course.
As smooth as angel dust.
|-|ardy
This new feature will be just great!
A question: will the corridor include also the routing to the planned alternates (enroute/destination etc)?
Thanks
Marco
The corridor includes whatever you enter. It's a new weather design tool, in addition to the existing tools. You can enter up to 200 corridor points, and up to 6 wind/OAT altitude records per point. Whenever the text cursor has not been moved for three seconds, PSX starts injecting the text data into the weather model. Everything in the model is smoothly interpolated in 3D space & time.
You can paste text from another source and then leave it as is.
You can paste text from another source and then edit the text.
You can generate text for the current FMC route and then edit the text.
You can write text from scratch.
You can write text from scratch and then edit the text.
Instead of clicking hundreds of buttons and edit fields, you have all controls in text form at your finger tips.
You can also copy the text in PSX and paste it into other programs for external paperwork or archives etc. PSX can write and read 4 different text formats that are used in popular flight planners.
Regards,
|-|ardy
Thanks Hardy for the exhaustive explanation,
it sounds wonderful!!
Also the random deviations are very appreciated
Marco
Hi Steve and all,
we discussed the 5-wind-records format whether it should have lat/lon values under each waypoint identifier.
I have this 5-wind-records format in 4 columns without lat/lon:
SACO PAMAX ORABA ASIMO
400 293/095 -54 400 293/077 -54 440 295/053 -54 400 291/049 -54
310 312/062 -37 380 297/070 -50 420 294/056 -54 310 301/038 -38
220 335/037 -20 360 301/063 -46 400 292/057 -54 220 313/027 -22
130 003/021 -03 340 306/057 -42 380 290/051 -50 130 328/015 -06
040 069/012 +14 320 310/051 -39 360 288/045 -46 040 000/004 +10
D355O RW17R PEFOR
400 290/049 -55 400 290/049 -55 400 290/049 -55
310 300/038 -39 310 300/038 -39 310 300/039 -39
220 312/027 -23 220 312/027 -23 220 312/027 -23
130 328/016 -06 130 328/016 -06 130 328/016 -07
040 000/004 +10 040 000/004 +10 040 000/004 +10
And I have this 5-wind-records format in 3 columns without lat/lon:
SACO PAMAX ORABA
FL400 293/095 -54 FL400 293/077 -54 FL440 295/053 -54
FL310 312/062 -37 FL380 297/070 -50 FL420 294/056 -54
FL220 335/037 -20 FL360 301/063 -46 FL400 292/057 -54
FL130 003/021 -3 FL340 306/057 -42 FL380 290/051 -50
FL040 069/012 +14 FL320 310/051 -39 FL360 288/045 -46
ASIMO D355O RW17R
FL400 291/049 -54 FL400 290/049 -55 FL400 290/049 -55
FL310 301/038 -38 FL310 300/038 -39 FL310 300/038 -39
FL220 313/027 -22 FL220 312/027 -23 FL220 312/027 -23
FL130 328/015 -6 FL130 328/016 -6 FL130 328/016 -6
4000 000/004 +10 4000 000/004 +10 4000 000/004 +10
PEFOR
FL400 290/049 -55
FL310 300/039 -39
FL220 312/027 -23
FL130 328/016 -7
4000 000/004 +10
Some users of PFPX or Simbrief have posted examples without lat/lon values. So I want to keep those formats. Instead of replacing them by "with-lat/lon" variants, I want to add "with-lat/lon" variants. So there will be 6 instead of 4 formats:
• 4 records
• 5 records (3 columns) + lat/lon
• 5 records (3 columns)
• 5 records (4 columns) + lat/lon
• 5 records (4 columns)
• 6 records
Just to be sure, Steve, should the lat/lon values be added to the 4-column format as well? Or just to the 3-column format? You showed the lat/lon values in the 3-column format only. In that case I would add just one format, so that there are 5 formats in total:
• 4 records
• 5 records (3 columns) + lat/lon
• 5 records (3 columns)
• 5 records (4 columns)
• 6 records
Regards,
|-|ardy
Hardy,
I was going to confirm things with you ... since PFPX has now evolved into v2.xx.
Here are all of the possible wind data block permutations/outputs that PFPX can create in its current form.
I have listed them from 1 thru to 6.
1, 2 & 3 being the ones I have used in my templates & 4 being a variation on 1 minus the LATLON coordinates.
Number 5 is also an option that you might want to consider but I think that number 6 is in a format which is unusable.
From a Flight Plan template point of view I would want to keep things as realistic as possible but in the end its really as simple as just changing a small syntax line edit in a small file in a Dropbox file so its no work for me.
So the choices are really up to you now.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OUTPUT 1 'UPS' Format
(CLIMB) CONGA ENVAR
N2203.0 N2144.1 N2159.5
E11441.9 E11647.1 E11730.0
FL380 229/037 -51 FL430 221/036 -63 FL430 224/037 -63
FL310 223/039 -33 FL410 221/036 -59 FL410 224/037 -59
FL230 231/032 -16 FL390 221/035 -54 FL390 224/037 -54
FL150 228/023 -2 FL370 224/035 -49 FL370 226/036 -49
7000 176/010 +11 FL350 227/034 -44 FL350 229/035 -44
DADON RENOT (DESCENT)
N2216.6 N2234.1 N2427.9
E11800.2 E11830.7 E12037.8
FL430 227/038 -63 FL430 230/039 -63 FL380 251/049 -51
FL410 227/038 -59 FL410 231/039 -58 FL310 248/048 -34
FL390 227/037 -54 FL390 231/038 -53 FL230 251/038 -16
FL370 229/037 -49 FL370 233/038 -49 FL150 257/029 -3
FL350 232/036 -44 FL350 235/037 -44 7000 239/009 +10
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OUTPUT 2 'Asiana' Format
350 370 390 410
N2217.8E11354.0 VHHH 071 7 P16
N2220.2E11401.3 PORPA 109 16 P10 23041 23041 23040 22041
N2214.9E11417.6 TD 132 39 M04 23040 23039 23039 22040
N2148.7E11448.8 OCEAN 092 29 M31 23037 23036 23036 22037
N2147.6E11519.8 RASSE 092 81 M51 23036 22036 22035 22036
N2144.1E11647.1 CONGA 069 43 390 M54 23034 22035 22035 22036
N2159.5E11730.0 ENVAR 058 33 390 M54 23035 23036 22037 22037
N2216.6E11800.2 DADON 058 14 390 M54 23036 23037 23037 23038
N2224.0E11812.9 EXTRA 058 19 390 M53 23037 23037 23038 23038
N2234.1E11830.7 RENOT 058 70 390 M53 24037 23038 23038 23039
230 250 270 290
N2310.7E11935.5 TONGA 030 21 M53 24029 24032 24035 24037
N2328.8E11946.9 BOCCA 032 45 M34 24031 24034 24037 24039
DESC FL 60 130 230 270
WIND 23007 26024 25038 25043
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OUTPUT 3 'Cirrus' Format
24000 30000 34000 36000 38000 41000
VHHH 23037M18 22042M31 23042M41 23041M46 23040M51 22041M59
PORPA 23037M18 22042M31 23042M41 23041M46 23040M51 22041M59
TD 23035M18 22041M31 23041M41 23040M46 23039M51 22040M59
OCEAN 23032M18 22039M31 23037M41 23036M46 23036M51 22037M59
RASSE 23031M18 22038M31 23037M41 23036M46 22035M51 22036M59
CONGA 23028M17 23034M31 23034M41 23035M47 22035M51 22036M59
ENVAR 23027M18 23033M31 23034M41 23035M47 22036M51 22037M59
DADON 24027M18 23034M31 23036M41 23036M46 23037M51 23038M59
EXTRA 24028M18 23035M31 23036M41 23037M46 23037M51 23038M59
RENOT 24028M18 24036M31 24037M41 23038M46 23038M51 23039M58
TONGA 24030M18 24039M31 24041M41 24041M46 24041M51 24041M58
BOCCA 24032M18 24041M31 24043M41 24043M46 24043M51 24043M58
ELBER 25036M18 24044M31 25048M41 25047M46 25047M51 25047M58
BRAVO 25040M18 25048M31 25052M41 25051M46 25050M51 25050M58
JAMMY 25042M18 25050M31 25054M41 25053M46 25052M51 25052M58
RCTP 25042M18 25051M31 25055M41 25054M46 25053M51 25053M58
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OUTPUT 4
(CLIMB) CONGA ENVAR
FL380 229/037 -51 FL430 221/036 -63 FL430 224/037 -63
FL310 223/039 -33 FL410 221/036 -59 FL410 224/037 -59
FL230 231/032 -16 FL390 221/035 -54 FL390 224/037 -54
FL150 228/023 -2 FL370 224/035 -49 FL370 226/036 -49
7000 176/010 +11 FL350 227/034 -44 FL350 229/035 -44
DADON RENOT (DESCENT)
FL430 227/038 -63 FL430 230/039 -63 FL380 251/049 -51
FL410 227/038 -59 FL410 231/039 -58 FL310 248/048 -34
FL390 227/037 -54 FL390 231/038 -53 FL230 251/038 -16
FL370 229/037 -49 FL370 233/038 -49 FL150 257/029 -3
FL350 232/036 -44 FL350 235/037 -44 7000 239/009 +10
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OUTPUT 5
WPT FL350 FL370 FL390 FL410
-----------------------------------------------------------------
CONGA 23034M44P10 22035M49P08 22035M54P03 22036M59M02
ENVAR 23035M44P10 23036M49P08 22037M54P03 22037M59M02
DADON 23036M44P10 23037M49P08 23037M54P03 23038M59M02
RENOT 24037M44P10 23038M49P08 23038M53P03 23039M58M02
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OUTPUT 6
CLIMB WINDS DESCENT WINDS
380 229/037 -51 380 251/049 -51
310 223/039 -33 310 248/048 -34
230 231/032 -16 230 251/038 -16
150 228/023 -2 150 257/029 -3
070 176/010 +11 070 239/009 +10
-----------------------------------------------------------------
CRUISE WINDS
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FL370 FL390 FL410
LAT WAY WIND WIND WIND
LONG POINT SR/TROP/OAT SR/TROP/OAT SR/TROP/OAT
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2144N CONGA 224/035 221/035 221/036
11647E 00/361/-49 00/361/-54 00/361/-59
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2159N ENVAR 226/036 224/037 224/037
11730E 00/361/-49 00/361/-54 00/361/-59
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2216N DADON 229/037 227/037 227/038
11800E 00/361/-49 00/361/-54 00/361/-59
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2224N EXTRA 231/037 229/038 229/038
11812E 00/361/-49 00/361/-53 00/361/-59
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2234N RENOT 233/038 231/038 231/039
11830E 00/361/-49 00/361/-53 00/361/-58
-----------------------------------------------------------------
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Thanks, Steve.
I conclude the "5 records in 4 columns" format that some users have posted here doesn't come from PFPX, and maybe never contains lat/lon data?
As for the new outputs #5 and #6: If these aren't so important I'll omit them. It's a lot of work. Maybe next year ...
Regards,
|-|ardy
Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 4 Jan 2019 03:02I conclude the "5 records in 4 columns" format that some users have posted here doesn't come from PFPX, and maybe never contains lat/lon data?
Correct ... As I remember ... the "5 records in 4 columns" format was posted as being "LIDO Format". I went on to explain that LIDO was a flight planning & flight dispatch provider & that they had no actual data format or output - formats & outputs are actually customer preferences.
The "5 records in 4 columns" format cannot be created by PFPX.Quote from: Hardy Heinlin on Fri, 4 Jan 2019 03:02As for the new outputs #5 and #6: If these aren't so important I'll omit them. It's a lot of work.
Output #5 is used by some airlines (none of which I have created a template for) & I have never seen Output #6.
Happy to have helped.
Steve
Hi all,
unfortunately, the NG FMC upgrade (which contains the new weather tools discussed in this thread*) won't be finished this year. I need at least two more months. As so often, at the end, things get bigger than expected ...
Thank you all for your patience!
Regards,
|-|ardy
* ... and which contains these tools too:
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5007.msg54126#msg54126
I'm sure this will be worth the wait, Hardy!
My wallet is ready when you are :-)
take care
-E
It will be worth the wait, Hardy!!
Thanks Hardy to let us know!
Two more months aren't that bad.
Thanks for the update! Will wait :)